[00:24] Join: datagram joined #corewars [00:47] Hmm, I am anxious to see the full results for this round [01:50] Join: Q-Thief joined #corewars [01:56] Part: Q-Thief left #corewars [03:51] Join: datagram_ joined #corewars [07:33] Join: Mizcu joined #corewars [08:07] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4335160.stm [08:12] Hi Mizcu ! [08:13] hi data [08:13] How goes it [08:14] relatively well [08:14] though i lost to Nenad [08:14] It happens [08:14] What type warriors did you two send? [08:14] Seems we both sent papers [08:15] Ah [08:15] Well, atleast i did ;) [08:19] hmm.. i have to figure out what i want as graduation present from my aunt, how lives in Singapore [08:20] Heh [08:20] Money is always good! :P [08:20] nah, i have a chance to ask for something exotic [08:21] http://koti.mbnet.fi/mizcu/pallot.jpg [08:21] crap shot taken with the cam in my cellular [08:26] A past gift? [08:27] actually i bought first two(sets) when i visited there 6 years ago [08:27] rest were a requested gift [10:42] Mizcu: That's cool [10:42] maybe i should request some decorative shortsword or similiar [10:43] Heh [10:43] Do you play Go? Get an authentic asian board and the fancy stones [10:44] Not a bad idea, if i would play it [10:45] Heh [10:45] My set that I bought is nice [10:45] Played on it last night, actually [11:11] Join: Imrahil joined #corewars [11:12] ooh, a new nick [11:14] Dum dum dummm [11:14] Heh [11:56] MSG: Quit: Leaving [12:10] Sic hoc adfixum in obice legere potes, et liberaliter educatus [12:10] et nimis propinquus ades [12:11] If you can read this bumper sticker, you are [12:11] very well educated and much too close [12:18] well Mizcu, i don't have anything comparable to the Latinum, so I stick to bad English, even worse French and some good german [12:19] he, i say [12:19] but interestingly either I'm too stupid to get anything like a local test engine for my programm or there isn't anything like it [12:20] www.geocities.com/corewin2/ - for windows [12:21] thx [12:21] http://sourceforge.net/projects/corewar - for *nix [12:26] hm, ok, I think I'll read the beginners guide *g* [12:27] If you get questions, just ask and ill answer. Though i think i might be AFK for an hour or two [12:29] If you want to talk someone in German, ask Fizmo, Jens/Fluffy, Sascha or Fiveop once they arrive. [12:29] kk [12:29] is there any possility to copy more than a line of code? [12:44] not without looping while modifying the mov [12:45] ok, that's a more complex matter [12:46] you can copy stuff with only two lines, mov and a loop, but that requires use of addressing modes, and they are not first thing teached to beginners [12:52] well, I'll just stick to the FAQs and the guide then [12:54] how are the programms placed in the competition environment? [13:23] another is placed at position 0001-0100, and second semi-randomly [13:24] there is usually a minimum lenght set between the warriors [14:06] is it possible to change both sides of a following DAT with a jmn ? [14:08] no [14:22] Join: ranok joined #corewars [14:22] hello all [14:22] hi [14:23] how are you today? [14:24] nice and you? [14:24] ok [14:24] I think I just found something for my idle hours ;) [14:25] yeah? [14:25] what? [14:25] corewars ;) [14:25] oh [14:26] another newbie, whee! [14:26] I'd like to start [14:26] *lol* [14:26] yet, I'm a little confused [14:26] http://vyznev.net/corewar/guide.html#deep_math [14:26] ah [14:26] http://vyznev.net/corewar/guide.html [14:26] this helps you a lot [14:26] after reading this it's a matter of try and error [14:27] where are you from? [14:27] USA [14:28] wha, that's quite tricky, i try to increase either both values of the following dat or two dats [14:28] I get most of it, yet, I don't understand indirect addressing [14:28] both is near to impossible ^^ [14:28] or, have any strategy [14:28] Imrahil: add.f #1, 1 [14:28] well I'm using a bomb core and try to get it to replicating [14:29] ranok: aht, how should i explain this.. [14:29] argh, sometimes your in the middle of something and try it complicated, and then someone just walks along pastes a line of code and stupifys your 20 lines of code ;) [14:29] Imra: familiar feeling :) [14:31] not really for me [14:31] ranok: you have an instruction, say you are moving something with target having indirect addressing. First, the mov reads the target address, and the values in it. Then it takes either a- or b-field, depending on the indirect addressing you are using-- [14:32] ranok: and uses that as the target where stuff is moved to. [14:32] example 2: [14:32] jmp @1 [14:33] dat 0, 20 [14:34] jmp looks at instruction itself+1, and reads its b-field, because @ is b-field indirect. Then, it reads the value (20) and adds it to 1 in-memory. Then the value is used as the final destination, in that case itself+21 [14:34] The adding in-memory doesnt modify anything in the core [14:34] well, I'll just play with it [14:35] Unless <>{} is used, which is the second chapter in indirect addressing [14:35] well, add did the trick [14:35] copy mov @copya, *copya [14:35] add #1, copya [14:35] jmn.b -2, }1 [14:35] copya dat #2, #-8 [14:35] but this just goes from the jmn to the dat [14:35] not back to mov [14:36] you are adding 1,2 into copya [14:36] add.f 5, somewhere doesnt add 5,5 , but instead 5,somewhere [14:38] ah, im messing you up [14:38] correct ^^ [14:38] i shoulve written add.f #5, somewhere [14:38] well, so add.b #1, copya should add 1 in the b-field of copya? [14:39] no [14:39] add.ab #1, copya does [14:39] add.b #xxx, copya adds 0, copya [14:39] Hello gents [14:39] hi again, data [14:39] ranok, I'm also a USA player [14:39] interesting, I think this kind of code is nothing at all like any language I used before [14:39] It's assembly [14:40] really really simplified assembly [14:40] Da [14:40] But assembly none the less : ) [14:42] confusing none the less ;) [14:43] lol [14:43] atleast there aren;t any ints [14:43] int 21, wtf [14:48] hm, why does this programm no jump to the beginning of its copy? [14:49] Lemme explain it [14:49] (as direct msg) [14:51] would they got mad if I just sen t in a program [14:51] please explain, they? [14:51] koth admins [14:51] one that would most definatly suck [14:51] If its your own code, no [14:51] but you wont get very far there [14:52] sal.math.ualberta.ca has beginner-hill [14:52] But it is also somewhat challenging for a just-starter. [14:52] newsgroup? [14:53] Ints are confusing in 80x86 : ) ? [14:53] rec.games.corewar [14:54] http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.corewar [14:59] i brb [14:59] restart into windows [15:00] MSG: Quit: Leaving [15:05] Please complain at Fizmo and ask him to post all of last round's results and warriors and the round robin please Mizcu :P [15:05] I am off to bed [15:05] Night night! [15:09] hm [15:09] i combined the midget with the dwarf [15:09] as a result it sometimes just erases everything else sometimes it just erases itself ;) [15:09] ah, the mice with the dwarf ;) [15:10] Killing own copies is quite common with replicators, you just have to live with it. [15:12] Problem: it does not kill the whole copy it just kills part of it [15:12] and so the Process count goes up and up and up and ... you know what i mean ;) [15:15] Join: ranok joined #corewars [15:15] I'm back [15:16] only a part of it.. you have spl 0 somewhere in the code? [15:18] no [15:18] It's just that the bomb is killed and the replicator just replicates trash [15:18] the concept of piper ist more interesting [15:19] just copy a very large amount of data [15:21] dtd: mov 2, -7 [15:21] jmp -1 [15:21] dat 0, 0 [15:21] end [15:21] would that work? [15:22] for what? [15:22] yes. But it would be useless against everything other than imps [15:22] you want to copy something endless behind you [15:22] imp countertask [15:22] I call it: DTD [15:23] destined to die [15:23] lol, start getting it working before giving it nice names ;) [15:27] well [15:27] it beat an imp [15:27] 8-2 [15:27] but then lost to a dwarf [15:27] 32-0 [15:29] mine beat an imp 2-0 [15:29] ^^ [15:29] w00t, nice [15:29] within 10 matches [15:29] ^^ [15:30] 4-0 [15:31] ouch [15:31] 7-0 against midget [15:38] 5-4 loss against the midget [15:40] 6-4 won ^^ [15:41] Usually more that 100 matches are done to be sure of result's accuracy [15:43] 50-47 won against midget ;) [15:46] hm, it would be interesting to know how many lines you really need for a copytool [15:46] not even one that copys itself [15:50] 2 with multiprocess, 3 with single [15:51] i don't really understand what you mean with multiprocess? [15:51] running multiple processes per each copy [15:51] Mouse uses just 1 per copy, modern paper usually use 8 per each [15:52] Mouse, Mice, bleh.. [15:53] i dont even get one multiple process to running [15:54] spl anywhere :) [15:57] Join: elkauka joined #corewars [15:58] hi [16:02] is it possible to have a DAT not terminating a process? [16:04] no [16:06] ah, i forgot to mention kauka in the list of Germans [16:09] ? [16:09] I thought dat 0,0 was a legal instruction [16:12] 15. Is it DAT 0, 0 or DAT #0, #0? How do I compare to core? [16:12] Core is initialized to DAT 0, 0. This is an illegal instruction (in source [16:12] code) under ICWS'88 rules and strictly compliant assemblers (such as KotH or [16:12] pmars -8) will not let you have a DAT 0, 0 instruction in your source code - [16:12] only DAT #0, #0. So this begs the question, how to compare something to see [16:12] if it is empty core. The answer is, most likely the instruction before your [16:12] first instruction and the instruction after your last instruction are both [16:12] DAT 0, 0. You can use them, or any other likely unmodified instructions, for [16:12] comparison. Note that under ICWS'94, DAT 0, 0 is a legal instruction. [16:15] legal in that you may use it in your warrior, not legal in way that you can step on one [16:15] scorpion vs midget seems to be a tie [16:17] 4700 imps [16:17] ^^ [16:17] Ah okay Mizcu [16:20] Join: Fluffy joined #corewars [16:20] Hi everybody! [16:20] hi fluffy [16:20] isn't arcor german? ^^ [16:21] Yes, I'm from Germany [16:21] ich auch ;) [16:22] elkauka: It seems, that we both have failed the Roy-limit ;-) [16:22] yup [16:23] is it possible to do 100 rounds in a row with this wincore? [16:23] ah, corewin ;) [16:23] Imrahil: Are you new to corewar? [16:23] absolutely [16:24] Unfortunately I don't use corewin [16:24] yes yo can [16:25] settings / rounds 100 [16:25] hm, I think I'll try my programm against whatever those other guys came up with [16:25] no elkauka, i mean without having to click start every round [16:25] Settings -> lower right corner, matches per round [16:27] * Fluffy is now reading the logs and therefore away for a moment [16:27] where the heck is settings supposed to be [16:29] there are a few buttons in the main frame (start, vie core etc) [16:29] and there is a button for settings [16:29] (maybe labeled with options or setup) [16:30] in setup i only have matches per round [16:31] and i set that to 100 [16:31] If I remember correctly there is an online tutorial and a FAQ for Corewin on its homepage [16:36] Imrahil: wenns dir leichter fällt frag einfach auf deutsch. fluffy spricht das auch [16:36] lol...hätte die logs wohl vorher mal lesen sollen... [16:37] :) [16:38] I was just thinking about the rules for the semifinal... [16:38] hm, doofer weise find ich einfach nix was in die richtung ginge [16:38] It is still possible to write normal stilk-style papers. [16:38] *silk [16:39] Simply create the paper by copying the given spl's and then adjust the values [16:40] well but thats an abuse of the rules isnt it? [16:40] Piper, Mice, Midget und meiner [16:41] ergebnis: 7 4 1 4 [16:41] hm [16:41] No, I don't think so, elkauka. [16:41] is there anything like a noob server or so? [16:41] You simply copy the given spl's. What is wrong with that. [16:41] Imrahil: Yes, one moment [16:41] Rounds is in setup for corewin [16:42] maxprocesse should be 32...but fizmo wants you start with 32 parallel running processes...not more [16:42] Fluffy, You can't do that because of the mov [16:42] It overwrites the spl [16:42] Imrahil: http://sal.math.ualberta.ca/ [16:43] datagram: Yes, you're right :( [16:43] I thought about that earlier : ) [16:43] * elkauka hasnt noitced the mov either [16:43] This round is the toughest yet, at least from my standpoint [16:43] It doesn't matter, because I'm more than out now ;-) [16:44] At least in 3800 you could use tiny warriors [16:44] Heh [16:44] You're now with me in spirit jens! [16:44] As I battle on [16:44] I would never do that ;-) [16:44] You had a tough bracket though [16:44] I'm a selfish guy ;-) [16:44] Heh [16:44] Did you see I made a paper? [16:44] Sort of [16:45] Either I win or I try to do anything to make nobody win ;-) [16:45] P switching scanner / kline paper was my Quarterfinal round entry [16:45] the next challenge, upload a warrior ^^ [16:46] But I suck/couldnt fit anymore code in, so it was just the default kline paper example [16:46] hehe [16:46] Imrahil: alles was du brauchst ist ein email programm, bei sal musst du dich außerdem vorher registrieren..ist alles ganz gut in deren hilfe erklärt [16:46] registriert bin ich [16:47] dann steht dem eigendlich nicht mehr im wege ... lies die aber die hilfe durch, das ist erklärt, was du noch an befehlen in der email haben musst [16:47] es ist ich versteht nicht Deutsches zu schlecht [16:48] obviously [16:48] Heh [16:48] Gogo babelfish! [16:48] datagram: Use English, at least then we can understand you ;-) [16:48] well, i think i did it ;) [16:48] Hey, once a week I get to pretend I speak german [16:48] That's the deal [16:49] Imrahil: sal brauch manchmal etwas bis es die ergebinsse ausspuckt, also etwas gedult [16:49] datagram: I was so stupid to make a backup of all my warriors, but didn't include my warrior for CWSET [16:49] Yeah I saw that [16:49] What ended up happening? [16:49] datagram: I had to write a new one from scratch [16:49] a simple paper with a shortened qscan [16:49] : / [16:49] What was the original [16:49] Original what? [16:50] The original version [16:50] Same thing, but better? [16:50] the mail has to go to or where? [16:50] [16:50] [16:50] datagram: It was a p/s [16:50] I see [16:50] That was popular this round [16:51] I has optimax running for almost the complete week [16:51] : / [16:51] Bad luck this tournament! [16:51] Next one you will go wild, don't worry :P [16:51] Karma! [16:51] hehe [16:51] You got the bracket I was supposed to get [16:51] when will my warrior be updated? [16:52] Roy didn't get 1st though [16:52] Imrahil, It challenges the hill [16:52] So it runs a tournament, and the warrior with the lowest score gets pushed off [16:52] if your score is better than the lowest, you stay on the hill [16:52] Imrahil: after 1 or 2 mins [16:52] kk [16:53] (17:49:14) elkauka: Imrahil: sal brauch manchmal etwas bis es die ergebinsse ausspuckt, also etwas gedult [16:53] I also barely got on 94b the other day [16:53] By the end of the week I will be koth mwuhaha [16:53] Fluffy, How's this for a warrior name [16:53] "Warmaker" [16:53] on 94nop or 94b? [16:53] 94b [16:54] Join: Nenad joined #corewars [16:54] Hi [16:54] Actually Planter will do better on 94b once more scanners get pushed off [16:54] He's s/i resistant [16:54] Hi Nenad! [16:54] Hi Nenad [16:54] Okay, now I REALLY have to goto bed [16:54] 9 AM here [16:54] 0900 ;) [16:54] heh [16:54] * Fluffy waves [16:55] * Nenad waves [16:55] Hi Nenad! [16:55] Goodnight [16:55] Hi Jens [16:55] nenad/jens ... isnt in time to remove your topscoring warrior from the beginner hill? [16:55] hehe ... I've just noticed, that Yatima is koth on 94b. I thought, that it was near being pushed off [16:55] did you see Zul submitted Harmless Fluffy etc. at 94t? [16:56] so, you are not the only one :) [16:56] Yes, MK I MGM is still on that hill :) [16:57] elkauka: I think, I should do that. I've already killed all my other warriors on 94b a while ago [16:57] elkauka: I thought I'd leave one warrior on 94b, since I want to get the hill reports and to be able to monitor the hill. Svarog is a beginner strength warrior, not unbeatable in any way... If you recall, I voted for 100 age limit at 94b and I still want that to happen ... and also to be able to subscribe to the hill challenge results [16:58] Imrahil: Have already gotten on email from SAL about an successful assembly of your warrior? [16:59] elkauka: There are other much older warriors there - Unknown, Tom... [16:59] Star by Sascha Zapf [17:00] Fizmo/Joonas: Any news about implementing the age limit on SAL? [17:00] and adding that hill where the warriors killed by age limit mechanism will continue to fight :) [17:01] btw, are the rules for the next round posted ar rgc? [17:02] don't know [17:02] seems not... [17:03] but on corewar.info you can find them [17:05] Jens: why don't you try making something like SDN? You like making papers, but I didn't see you try to improve that approach suggested by Fizmo. [17:07] hmm .. S.D.N. looks interesting and I've already thought about that, but not yet [17:07] Working on my MARS is far more interesting at the moment [17:09] the rules for the semifinals are interesting... and very hard [17:10] at least you can reduce the 32 processes to any number below 32 [17:10] well, 32 is too much... [17:10] So normal scanners would be easy [17:11] since you can't split, the only way to "split" the processes is by multiple djn's [17:11] I won't be needing 32 processes at one place, that's for sure [17:11] but what's the point in scanners? [17:11] no papers [17:11] and stones are faster [17:12] that was probably Fizmo's intention [17:12] ... although stones won't be so easy to make [17:12] you can't enter coreclear by selfhit with dat [17:12] since you'll die [17:13] you can overwrite your inc with dat 1,1 [17:13] but you don't split [17:13] but, now to play ET [17:13] Maybe you could throw sth. other than a dat [17:13] what s that? [17:13] a computer game he likes to play [17:13] that much I could figure out myself ;-) [17:14] But what stands ET for? [17:14] I think that we should officially declare Mizcu are corewar beginners mentor... He's always here when new beginnes arrive. [17:14] *are=our [17:15] Do "old beginners" exist? [17:15] well, probably [17:15] if you read the discussion thread regarding actions to promote corewar... [17:16] I think that I saw some posts by guys who know about corewar for quite some time, but never did anything significant [17:16] then what? [17:16] however, they are not really "active" [17:17] Fluffy: et = return to castle wolfenstein: enemy territory [17:17] hmm ... yet another game, I don't know ;-) [17:18] x-mas lemmings is still the best game, that I've played so far [17:18] Chrono trigger, if you ask me [17:18] or civ2 [17:18] never played that, only the original civ [17:19] alpha centaury was even better [17:19]