[01:07] MSG: [03:13] Join: brx_ joined #corewars [03:16] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [07:48] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [07:50] Join: datagram joined #corewars [08:36] Nick Change: brx_ changed nick to brx [10:40] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [10:44] Join: datagram joined #corewars [11:41] Join: Mizcu joined #corewars [11:54] http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp [11:54] -_- [12:05] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [12:05] Join: datagram joined #corewars [12:19] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [12:20] Join: datagram joined #corewars [12:31] MSG: Read error: Operation timed out [12:47] Mizcu: := [12:48] ? [14:42] Join: Roy joined #corewars [14:44] MSG: Client Quit [15:40] Join: Fluffy joined #corewars [15:40] :) [15:41] bvowk: Are you there? [15:44] I guess not ... [15:45] Join: Metcalf joined #corewars [15:45] Hi [15:45] Hi Metcalf! [15:45] Hi Jens [15:45] I've just updated all the HoF and logs (apart from '94nop) [15:45] nice, did you include HFB? [15:46] Not '94nop [15:46] I saved that one until last [15:46] hehe, I should actually read, what you've written [15:47] Dave Hillis will soon have the oldest nano warrior ever :-) [15:47] age? [15:48] I mean: current age? [15:48] About 513 [15:48] John, you did participate in that circle contest, didn't you? [15:48] Yes, with hand-made solutions. [15:49] I didn't do very well [15:49] I didn't know until about a week before the deadline. [15:49] Now, that it is over I've come to the conclusion, that it is a great (and useless) way to spend my sparetime [15:49] I haven't been checking often enough, I participated in one of his contests before [15:50] There will be a new contest [15:50] I've started to write some short programs to place the circles [15:50] Do you know of any papers on that subject? [15:50] No [15:50] I didn't really look into it. [15:51] 5 or 6 circles should be easy enough to find the overall optimum [15:51] But of course I usually know nothing ;- [15:51] It seems the next contest will be along these lines http://www.primepuzzles.net/puzzles/puzz_232.htm [15:51] ) [15:52] yes, but that doesn't sound as interesting as the circles [15:52] Easier maybe? [15:53] what? the prime contest? [15:55] Yes [15:55] Don't know, but at it seems to be easy to generate solutions (as promised by recmath.org), but I don't know how hard it is to create good solutions [15:56] why not try to computer-bruteforce the proof to Z function while they're at it.. [15:56] No need to, such a project is already up and running [15:57] (Zeta-Grid) [15:57] heh [15:57] Hi Mizcu! [15:57] (someone has offered a nice pile of money to those that can solve it..) [15:57] www.zetagrid.net [15:58] Mizcu: you mean prooving the Riemann hyptothesis? [15:59] with 11000 computers the cash would end up similiary to distributed.org .. [15:59] *hypothesis [15:59] Fluffy: i read something like that at a local science-magazine [16:01] i am not competent at high enough maths to try to understand the function/hypothesis, other than the human-readable explanation i read from the magazine [16:01] Altough it would be a hard blow for the math-community, I'd really like to see, that someone finds a counterexample [16:01] :-) [16:02] A lot of interesting things in that area start with: "Under the assumption, that the (General) Riemann Hypothesis is true ..." [16:03] you always like to screw things up. [16:03] A lot of mathematicians would have generated a lot of "crap", if it wouldn't hold [16:03] YES [16:04] ... and: Hi brx! [16:04] good afternoon [16:08] It's a pain waiting for the English version of German board games to be released [16:08] german board games? [16:08] which one? [16:08] "pizza party" :) [16:09] Metcalf: You can always start to learn German :-) [16:09] I like things like Carcassonne, Oceania, etc. [16:09] I have not even heard of these. [16:10] I can get a translation of the rules from boardgamegeek.com [16:12] Anybody here with a decent knowledge of x86-asm? [16:13] meta question. [16:13] is 8086 knowledge any good to you? [16:14] Some examples of my programs here [16:14] http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/corewar/asm/ [16:14] I suppose pk could help. [16:14] but why don't you say what's on your mind anyway [16:14] no, I thinking about coding the MARS (PyCorewar) in asm to get some more speed [16:15] pythoncorewar in asm ?;) [16:15] There is an '88 Mars in asm [16:15] heh. [16:15] I know, but I'm thinking about using MMX/SSE/whatever [16:15] are you sure you are going to end up better than gcc? [16:16] as far as I know asm level optimizations have lost their appeal even to sceners [16:17] That's why I'm asking for someone with a decent x86-asm knowledge [16:17] I am not interested in optimising asm. [16:18] You optimise it for one CPU, then another one comes along which behaves slightly differently. :-( [16:18] Metcalf: exactly [16:18] Size optimisation is a different matter ;-) [16:18] and now the dualcores are coming.. [16:19] Join: Roy joined #corewars [16:19] Hi Roy! [16:19] hi hi [16:19] Hi Roy [16:19] Mizcu: dualcores should work very nice. The easiest solution is to run two MARS at once [16:19] Fluffy: I believe you are better off taking a hard look at your compiler's output and hand tweaking that. writing the whole thing in asm is painful to say the least. [16:20] dualcore with P4?5? HThreading.. [16:21] brx: You are probably right ... it was only an idea [16:22] Fluffy: when me and fiveop started out writing our raytracer in asm we quickly noticed that we wouldn't endure the hassle [16:22] :) [16:22] Mizcu: If I run a big benchmark only my dual-Celeron (yes, I know, that it is VERRRRY old) with two MARS and distribute the fights among both cups, it is abou 70% faster than on one cpu [16:22] *only->on [16:23] what about the "quad" -processors of dualcore HT? even more splicing of calculations of matches.. [16:24] Mizcu: What are you aiming at? [16:24] (bad English?) [16:25] Athlon will be having two Cores, Intel 2 true + 2 virtual, more and more "behaves slightly differently" [16:26] you are talking about the differences when writing asm? [16:26] hell, i keep some hate for people that dont optimize/and rewrite their code, even though today its not even useful and everyone has different standards in PC-market [16:26] Fluff: yes [16:27] DVDR +- war was bad enough, and now its being repeated with HD-DVD/BR-DVD [16:27] ah, Apple has it so easy [16:31] Maybe we should wait some more years until everybody can easily emulate the correct cpu :) [16:31] (and of course everything else) [16:31] correct cpu = mars-cpu? [16:33] I meant: the cpu, that the program you want to use,requires [16:34] Fluffy: I believe when that time has come, asm will be rather obsolete :) [16:35] I mean, writing things in asm. [16:35] And I will probably have become obsolete, too ;-) [16:35] don't say that :) [16:36] http://www.pibot.com/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=PIBOT [16:36] But I intend to upgrade myself to version 1.1 [16:36] fluffy > that was years ago ;-) (JUST KIDDING!) [16:37] Roy: Yes, but I've already upgraded to version 1.0.1 [16:39] Pibot, no idea what it is by just glancing the website, but they are promising a lot of things :) [16:39] Roy: lol yes [16:39] Roy: it is funny though :) [16:40] "PIBOT have practically no limit of learning" [16:40] As far as I'm concerned, there is no reason to have a PIBOT. A lot of people, that I know, aren't able to pass the Turing test. So why create a robot, that can ;-) [16:40] *the->a [16:40] But the Turing-test itself is irrelivant.. [16:40] there is a bet [16:40] let me get the url [16:40] http://www.longbets.org/1#terms [16:40] (see>Chinese room ) [16:40] Roy: It is relevant! [16:41] http://www.longbets.org/1 [16:41] they are actually putting 10k USD on the line. [16:42] http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~philos/MindDict/chineseroom.html [16:42] It states that a turing-test doesn't really prove Artificial Int. [16:43] AI isnt true AI until it makes mistakes [16:44] My prediction: In 2029 less than 50% of the (remaining ;-) human population will be able to pass any test, that tries to measure intelligence ;-) [16:44] bah [16:45] Fluffy: oh? [16:45] I already feel quite stupd :) [16:45] *stupid [16:45] a good sign [16:45] Though it might be quite correct, considering the internet communities [16:45] YES, I already feel better [16:46] oh please, miz :) [16:47] as long as we don't breed intelligence away (okay, naturally, that is happening..) or fail to provide nerve stimulation to our toddlers we should be fine [16:47] By 2029 we could always insert a mem.card into the back of our head and reload our memory.. and if you want some entertainment you just insert the memorycard with the best memories of the summerholliday of 2013 [16:48] Roy: better yet, stick yourself into a memory card and let the bodies hit the floor. [16:48] or BLT (better-than-life) chips made by bigcorporation inc. or localdrugdealers non-inc. [16:48] Until you have blue-eyes.. braincrash by Microsoft (tm) [16:48] Micro$oft, Microsloth [16:48] popups in your eyesight [16:49] Gilles the la tourette like commercials during a conversation :-( [16:49] "XXX, the average girl's xxxxx is 3 cm in diameter THE AVERAGE HORSES XXXX IS 5 CM IN DIAMETER YOU DO THE MATH!" [16:50] (taken and slightly edited from a fortune cookie, I take no credit.) [16:51] brx: http://www.passiononline.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=69_103&products_id=1593 [16:51] But but, you mean we are going to breed Centaure :) [16:52] Roy: the chinese room argument is kind of void. [16:52] Roy: you have read GEB, you should know some counter arguments. [16:53] err... GEB? [16:53] err.. [16:53] goedel, escher, bach [16:53] Goedel, Escher, Bach [16:53] Ah! hmm yes, but that was a while ago [16:55] Hehe... [16:55] Hi current corewar player [16:55] I wish you well with ICC2006. It provides me with another stimulous to [16:55] do something corewar-ish to "qualify" (such as try to write a decent [16:55] warrior) but realistically chances are I won't do either ("qualify" or [16:55] attend). [16:55] Philb [16:55] BTW I received this email at least 3 times - very thorough data-mining. [16:55] :-) [16:58] * Fluffy has to go [16:58] Part: Fluffy left #corewars [16:59] * Metcalf waves [17:20] Time for me to go too [17:20] * Metcalf waves [17:20] MSG: Quit: mov.i #1,1 [18:39] * asw waves to all [18:44] Nick Change: Roy changed nick to all [18:44] * all waves back [18:44] Nick Change: all changed nick to Roy [18:45] this stuff is scarier than horrow movies, specating our second play-off match [18:46] Well, good luck..! [18:51] Hmm, I'm now watching Darts (Lakeside) on tv, and I'm wondering [18:52] They always aim at the triple 20, with some darts going into the 1 and into the 5.. isn't it more productive to aim at the 19 with some darts accidently going into the 3 and the 7... (statisticly) [18:54] Roy: they have to get to 0 sometime. [18:54] I believe they are also trying not to mess the score up too much [18:54] also [18:54] they have to do it by hitting a double or something [18:54] but I don't know much about darts [18:56] Yes, they have to get to 0.. :-) [18:56] They start with a odd number, but to finish they have to hit a double, so they can't throw only even numbers [18:57] well, it's good to be able to have to hit one place early to end it [18:57] All doubles are of course even, and to get from a odd number to a even you have to throw a odd number at least once [19:18] Join: Fluffy joined #corewars [19:18] * Fluffy is back :) [19:18] * Roy hides [19:20] Any reason for that, Roy? [19:20] non in particular [19:20] Then why are you hiding? [19:21] Because you scared, saying it just like The Shining [19:21] *scared me [19:21] Heeere Fluffy!! [19:21] *Here's [19:21] * Roy can't type.. [19:22] ~3 mins left .. [19:22] Winning? [19:22] kinda [19:22] lost first round, ~2.45 left second round [19:23] bvowk: That wasn't nice! Yous shouldn't have introduced me to that circle thing. Now I'm addicted [19:24] *You [19:24] A bit too late Fluf.. :( [19:24] lost :( [19:24] I didn't want to win the contest, Roy. [19:24] You can vote for the squarepacking as next contest ;-) [19:24] Now I only want to create a good algorithm [19:25] and generate good results for values ... say 5 ... 100 [19:25] and let that program run for several months [19:25] Thats what bvowk (and companions) did [19:26] and I want to do the same :) [19:27] I was planning on making a program that had gravity, pulling all circles to the center, and then just randomly remove one circle and place it somewhere and let it pull to the center, then remembering the most tight circle it made [19:27] Apart from bruteforcing I'm looking now for an acceptable algorithm, that I can improve [19:27] Its a bit brute-force, but fun to watch and it might do well [19:30] Hmm ... and then there is the question, whether it is possible to find the smallest possible radius for small number [19:30] i.e. finding a proof, that it is the smallest [19:30] Proof would be hard.. [19:31] for N=1,2,3 it is trivial [19:31] for N=4 easy to find (simply test all possible positions) [19:31] at least I hope, that it is easy for N=4 [19:32] There might be a way to put all surfaces+areas in a formula.. [19:35] I'm looking now for some decent papers about that subject, but all I could find so far is about packing circles of the same size into a given form (circle, square, ...) [19:35] yes, or combinations (4 big ones and some smaller ones) [19:37] maybe you shouldnt approach it by putting circles, but instead taking frames (when you put circle in a square, and delete the circle from square) and combining them [19:37] because its about minimising those spots [19:39] Mizcu: I haven't even started to implement anything. I'm looking for papers, because I don't want to try to think [19:41] miz, I don't think that will work, circles can be closer to eachother then squares :( [20:08] Join: Metcalf joined #corewars [20:08] Hi [20:09] Hi John! [20:09] * Roy greets John [20:09] Roy: Another question: Apart from symmetries, ... is the optimum solution for low numbers unique? [20:10] I've just been updating the 94nop Hof but I can't get it on line because I'm not on a very good connection [20:10] Probably not.. [20:10] Fluf, I'm sure 3 isn't unique [20:10] Circles? [20:10] For 5 it will be [20:10] yes [20:10] Roy: Of course is 3 unique [20:11] Well, apart from the fact you can put the diameter 1 circle it several different places [20:11] apart from translation and rotation [20:11] The last circle is so small it can be placed on multible positions..? [20:11] No, it can't. [20:11] You only get a rotated version [20:12] maybe mirrored, but it is all in the same equivalence class [20:12] if you place the two circles there is a lot of room to place the third, not talking about mirrored or rotated but just a little more inwards or outwards [20:13] oh, yes, you're right [20:13] And I'm kind of sure you'll have the same thing with 50 circles [20:13] The last very small circle can be put in a lot of places [20:13] Maybe we should introduce a requirement for each circle to touch at least two others [20:13] How do you do 1 and 2 then? ;-) [20:14] N>2 :) [20:14] That's the usual way: exclude all trivial cases, even if they aren't trivial ;-) [20:15] The usual comment is then "This case is left as an exercise for the reader/student/whatever..." [20:15] lol [20:15] or even better: "Case xxxx: obvious" or "Case xxx: trivial" [20:16] No need to laugh. That's reality among mathematicians [20:16] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [20:17] Just leave it for the MythBusters [20:18] who? [20:18] Heh, a tv-program I'm watching [20:18] http://www.discoverychannel.com/myth_busters/ (??) [20:19] Never heard of it [20:19] Its cool, they take urban myths and then test it :) [20:19] working url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythbusters [20:20] Does esoteric math count as an urban myth ;-) [20:21] Hrm, you'll have to leave that to the MathBusters [20:21] Shouldn't get much viewers then [20:22] No.. Mythbusters is fun because everything always blows up.. [20:22] I've never seens math to blow up :) [20:22] *seen [20:22] no? what about uhm leathal null-divisions or uhm.. [20:23] A while ago a "Case xxx: obvious." translated to two pages of incomprehensible math at least [20:23] The prof's comment: Yes, that was obvious! [20:24] Roy: Measure unmeasurable sets? [20:24] Like Femats last theorem! [20:24] That's easy ... already solved ;-) [20:26] Just read the obvious proof of 200+ pages :-) [20:27] More than 1000 pages, I think and that doesn't include the stuff, you have to read in order to comprehend the 1000 pages [20:28] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach-Tarski_Paradox [20:28] Definitly better than division by zero [20:31] It's been the first theorem, that has really fascinated me [20:33] The first theorem? from? [20:34] Before I heard about it, math was "only" interesting, but this "little" theorem made me feel, what math is really about [20:35] Which little theorem? I would like to spend more time on math :) [20:35] Banach-Tarski [20:36] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach-Tarski_Paradox [20:36] Fluffy: not even students heads blowing up on maths-lesson? [20:37] no, the loudest thing has been the snoring of another student [20:38] But it sounds a bit uhm odd, you can get two balls from one ball.. :) [20:38] it isn't odd [20:39] first you have to think about how can you measure the size of an object [20:39] that will lead to the conclusion, that there are "set of points", you cannot assign as mearsure [20:39] i.e. volume [20:40] You can proof, that the measure of certain sets is neither = 0 nor > 0 [20:40] the are inmeasureable [20:41] after that you simply have to divide a measurable set into several not measurable sets [20:41] move them a little bit around [20:41] and create two new (measurable) sets again [20:41] that's it ;-) [20:42] but it takes some time to understand the underlying math [20:43] did I scare you again, Roy? [20:43] ;-) [20:43] zzzZZzzzzz [20:43] huh huh what? [20:44] :-) [20:44] hehe [20:44] I usually answer: "Did you hear that noise, too." [20:48] hmm ... sometimes I get overexcited by math ... [20:48] You have to stop me before it becomes boring ;-) [20:49] No, I like to hear about it, but this just goes above my head, just sounds completly stupid :) [20:50] Do you want me to start again? [20:50] Noo!! [20:50] I'm not going to get that today I guess ;-) [20:50] damn, I knew it sounded like a threat [20:50] Actually I'm looking into prime numbers now [20:51] and I'm into circle packing [20:51] maybe we should rename this channel to #useless_math [20:52] Its not useless..! [20:52] Join: Fizmo joined #corewars [20:52] But its not about CW either :) [20:52] HI [20:52] #math_that_almost_nobody_is_interesting_in [20:52] I have a feeling thats soon going to change though, hi fizmo! [20:52] Hi Fizmo! [20:53] hi Jens [20:54] Fizmo: Do you already know, that fsh94nop-0.3 is soon outdated? ;-) [20:54] really? [20:54] There are a lot of new (good) warriors on Koenigstuhl [20:54] :) [20:55] Let me guess ... you already have version 0.4, but you'll wait some months before you release it [20:55] right? [20:56] :) [20:56] heh, no. I have just a version 0.3a [20:57] but there is just one warrior different [20:57] and how many new warriors does it include? [20:57] hehe [20:57] a lot of good entries on koen [20:58] Unfortunately I cannot access "The Human machine" :-( [20:59] Machines will rule with a normal boot+qscan I think.. [20:59] I was also intrested in The Utterer, also 404 [21:01] Join: sascha joined #corewars [21:01] Hi Sascha :) [21:02] Hi2all [21:02] hi [21:04] hi [21:04] Hi Chris... [21:05] hello. [21:05] Roy: I don't know why they can't be accessable [21:05] Maybe he'll fix it someday... not in a hurry :) [21:05] Utterer is a funny warrior using a looped bootstrapper [21:07] I know that, but what does it boot..? a stone/ [21:07] paper? [21:07] a dat? [21:07] ;-) [21:08] Roy: Just check the fsh94nop0.3 [21:08] it's there [21:09] ah ok [21:09] also all other new kown entries [21:09] *koen [21:12] ah nice, hmm [21:12] stone/imp (aimp) [21:12] I'll have a closer look maybe later [21:12] brb [21:41] gotta go now [21:41] * Fizmo waves [21:42] * Fluffy waves [21:42] bye [21:42] MSG: [21:48] * Roy waves too bye [21:48] MSG: [22:52] bvowk: Nice posting about the circles contest :) [23:13] * sascha waves 2 all cw'ler arround the world [23:14] Part: sascha left #corewars [23:30] test [23:30] nice, it is working [23:31] a bit hackish in the end for [23:31] some screenshot eyecandy but working [23:32] ? [23:33] well, this is working.... [23:33] this right here [23:33] Forget it, I've been confused the whole day anyway [23:33] second [23:34] Fluffy: ftp://solace.is-a-geek.org/dump/syn.png [23:34] my toy [23:34] notice the fluffy cat? [23:35] just as a sidenote [23:39] brx: I cannot download the image. [23:39] I can connect to the server, but it doesn't send any data [23:39] oh? [23:40] that is weird, because someone else has seen the shot just now. [23:40] now it is working [23:41] what kind of connection do you have? [23:41] ISDN [23:41] I see. [23:42] does that help you to pin down the problem? [23:43] brx: Now I've noticed that cat. [23:43] It almost made me sneeze. [23:43] I'm allergic to hairs of cats [23:44] it's cute and fluffy [23:44] your connection type helping me pin down problems? [23:44] no, I was just wondering about the slow upload [23:44] hehe [23:45] :) [23:45] now I can write the actual application [23:45] at least it is a flatrate [23:45] boilerplate code is working [23:46] there are dsl flatrates nowadays :) [23:46] good luck :) [23:46] Yes, I know, but unfortunately someone decided, that I cannot get a DSL connection here [23:46] (syn will help my vocab, it will replace words I write with seldomly used synonyms) [23:46] .. now that's tough luck [23:46] The hard thing is, that I could get one, if I would live on the other side of the street [23:47] village town? :) [23:47] Berlin [23:47] real tough luck [23:47] but surely they will expand the net? [23:47] I still wait for a real reason to have a faster conenct [23:47] *connection [23:47] mh [23:48] Even downloading an ISO-image takes only 24 hours [23:49] as always, new resources give rise to new needs [23:49] I don't know, whether they really try to expand the net, but during the last months I've already set up two UMTS-routers for some friends [23:49] (as in: oh i'd like to *quickly* download that iso. ah only 15 minutes) [23:49] for 50 Euro I could get an UMTS-Flatrate with 384 kbit/sec downstream [23:49] * brx nods [23:49] that's good [23:50] on the other hand I could move and get 6 Mbit/sec downstream for about the same money ;-) [23:50] yes. that's what I currently have [23:51] the upstream is an advantage [23:51] Do you have a static ip? [23:51] probably not [23:51] no [23:52] If you could get one, hosting your own homepage might be interesting [23:52] but there is alway sth. like dyndns [23:52] well there's always dyndns [23:52] and its funny domains like is-a-geek.org [23:52] ;) [23:53] I would really like to keep my own domain(s) [23:54] same here. it would be interesting at first. [23:54] and somewhat useful afterwards [23:57] Time to get some sleep ... [23:57] * Fluffy waves [23:57] * brx waves [23:57] Part: Fluffy left #corewars