[00:00] hacker claiming to be a 17 year old girl said she wrote the newest virus against Microsoft's .Net service. She said that the virus was making a stand for sexism and proof of concept that a 17 year girl could write virus as well as anyone. [00:00] Gigabyte...? [00:00] heh [00:01] A 17-year-old Belgian girl known as “Gigabyte,” wrote Sharpei, the first known virus targeting Microsoft’s .NET platform, to prove that women are capable of creating computer viruses, too. In an online interview, she said that writing viruses was “a form of art, just like many other hobbies” and “...a fun way to practice programming.” [00:01] Korea’s Chosun Ilbo newspaper reported that a 15-year-old student was the country’s “Hacker Queen” after winning a contest organised by an Internet security provider. Analysts noted that Choi Hae-ran’s hacking skills were good enough to break into almost any company’s homepage easily. Choi says that she learned about hacking by simply browsing various websites. She is now listed in an online Hall of Fame for Korean hackers, and her dream is to become “a hacker th [00:01] That sounds like my attitude to programming [00:02] which is? [00:03] Probably: A form of art, fun way to practise [00:03] strike the last part. [00:03] :-) [00:03] she is talking about programming virii not programming. [00:03] I'm talking about programming [00:04] John: so programming is a fun way to practice programming? I agree. it's also the only one I know of. [00:04] :) [00:05] I didn't tell you my solution, so I've probably taken longer than anyone else [00:05] I just solved it :) [00:06] It's easy [00:06] Brx said I could assume the prisoners are immortal. [00:06] Lol, but if they are not.. [00:07] John: immortal as in they can still die an unnatural death of course :) [00:07] So the first prisoner in just says they've all been in, they try to shoot them and fail. [00:07] Changing the rules now! [00:07] heh :) [00:08] Okay my solution (which will take about 27 years): [00:08] The are three types of prisoner: [00:08] A, B, C [00:08] I don't have 27 years so hurry :P [00:08] three types? [00:08] * brx is all eyes [00:08] If A goes in and the light is off, he switches it off and becomes type B [00:09] ah [00:09] If B goes in he does nothing [00:09] If C goes it he will switch the light off, if it is on. He will count how many times he switches it off and when he gets to 99, everyone has been in [00:09] But if the light is off he turns it off (sounds unlogical) I think you just killed all the warriors! [00:10] Initially there are 99 A prisoners and 1 C prisoner [00:10] probably a typo [00:11] If C goes in, he will sith the light off, if it is on. [00:11] Hehe, probably, but lethal...no not really they will just serve life that way, never turning a light on ;-) [00:11] Argh! [00:11] If C goes in, he will switch the light off, if it is on. [00:11] and you Roy typoed too. warriors? [00:11] Just keeping a corewar theme ;-) [00:11] :) [00:12] :-S [00:12] I don't think I should blog about the riddles page [00:12] it would just pressure me into solving them all to blog the solutions [00:13] I think...I should get some sleep, planning on being productive tomorrow morning so my boss won't mind me watching 6 Olympics webfeeds :P [00:14] same here, should go to sleep [00:14] Other virus writers arrested in 2004 included Kim Vanvaeck aka Gigabyte - a female [00:15] Heh, when will the first CW player be arrested for writing a virus in redcode!? :P [00:15] We're all at risk! [00:16] maybe we should contribute an actual virus to promote the game :) [00:16] the redcode virus... installing a distributed evolver and running it in the background [00:17] * Roy thinks its a good idea! [00:17] maybe something a little less clumsy :) [00:17] Time to go :-P [00:17] and more destructive for extra media coverage [00:17] * Roy waves [00:17] * brx waves [00:17] No, not destructive, something that will help us and won't be noticed! [00:17] no [00:17] MSG: [00:17] :] [00:18] * John waves [00:18] There is a virus called Redcode [00:18] any connection? [00:19] No [00:19] * brx needs to go too [00:20] I think someone who visits here may know the Black Baron ;-) [00:20] * John waves [00:20] I need to go to [00:20] * brx waves [00:20] * brx waves [00:21] MSG: [00:22] How come when I search wikipedia for bibliography I get bibliographies (100% relevant) and bibliography (96.8% relevant) and both point to the same page? [02:39] * brx can't sleep [03:53] Join: brx_ joined #corewars [03:55] MSG: Read error: Operation timed out [03:55] Nick Change: brx_ changed nick to brx [05:49] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [07:09] Join: willvarfa joined #corewars [07:13] hello will. [07:13] good morning [07:13] good morning then. [07:30] * brx sighs [07:31] why the long face? [07:32] I just saw that I had wrongly memorized the deadline for university application [07:32] bugger [07:33] missed it? [07:33] no. the panic came in two steps: [07:33] step 1) "oh no! it was the 1st of january!" [07:33] step 2) "oh... no, I was in the wrong line. oh my god, it's in two weeks!" [07:35] so I have to get going now. I have the bad habit of waiting for the last minute every time. [07:35] * brx is an escalationist [07:39] * willvarfa looks up escalationist [07:45] I made that term up. [08:17] Join: Roy joined #corewars [08:17] howdy Roy [08:17] hiya [08:23] hey Roy [08:25] my rather empty resume is depressing. [08:26] I will add a chunk of clay [08:27] you're just about to start uni, right, brx? [08:27] it would be surprising if your CV was full [08:28] (and for those of us whose CVs were full before uni, 90% is bound to be irrelevant by graduation!) [08:28] most people who graduate have no work experience [08:29] some have a sandwich year [08:29] "sandwich year" ? [08:29] both of those scenerios won't hold you back [08:30] (a sandwich course is a course, typically a BSc or so, where one year between the second and third years is placed in industry; you're a brit, right?) [08:31] I'm a german :) [08:32] Ah, then you'd have a bratwurst-year [08:33] willvarfa: it's part of my escalationist attitude to worry much and do nothing about it. [08:33] that way, my worries are bound to become panic attacks in time. [08:36] * brx breathes heavily [08:55] Roy, you graduated? [09:05] Not yet, now doing a final internship, final project [09:05] Comming to the end now, writing a paper.. [09:06] Have about 30 pages now, but need at least 50 with a lot of addendums [09:06] where was the internship, and what is the paper about? [09:09] Still working here, www.codeglue.nl, a mobile game company [09:09] ah cool; j2me? [09:09] The paper discribes how I made a demo for them, yeah J2ME [09:10] I actually got Microsoft intrested in this demo, so they are very nice to me now ;-) [09:11] cool! [09:11] how do you mean? [09:12] Well, I made a demo, showed it to the microsoft people at a show, and now they want two versions for it, one for Microsoft Mobile, and one for Xbox Live Arcade (maybe) [09:12] do you own the demo? [09:12] But its too early to say anything, they just said that a week ago, all official stuff has to be done still [09:13] Nope, all for the company (too bad..) [09:13] not at all [09:13] means it might happen! [09:13] they want the demo ported, or they want the full game made? [09:13] I get a very low payment, and they are going to dump me as soon as I'm done :-P they want the full game ported [09:14] So I think I might start obfuscating the code a little, so they'll have to keep me [09:14] nope not at all1 [09:14] ! [09:14] make it clean and simple; all works of genius are beautiful [09:15] they'll want you so you can make the *next* hit game [09:15] :-) [09:15] Now brx comes in: Its J2ME, can't possibly be beautiful [09:18] "it's j2me, it can't possibly be beautiful" [09:19] * brx makes a copy of his id [09:35] * willvarfa remembers early J2ME stuff [09:35] we used to use a very procedural style, not javaesque at all [09:47] Its pretty Java-like now IMO [09:47] good good [09:47] And getting more and more advanced, its actually very nice to work with [09:47] :-) [09:47] what phones do you use for development? [09:48] Pfft, a lot.. [09:48] We are making this game for a Siemens S65 [09:48] (slow phone, horrible) [09:48] a Series 60 phone right? [09:49] Looks like it ;-) [09:49] We have some Nokia's, and for demonstrating we use the Sharp 902 (very big crisp screen) [09:50] do you use Java3D much? those screenshots all look 2D [09:50] No, never used it... the low-end phones can't handle that yet, so it has a small market [09:51] I think somebody here did one demo, but they didn't quite like it. The Publishers want us to use it though, they say its the future etc [09:51] But I like 2d games in such a small screen much more then 3d [09:52] is there a nethack for mobile phones? :) [09:53] There should be...! [09:53] exactly. [09:54] if you make money with it, be sure to give me a share for sparking the idea. [09:55] I'll click some ;-) [09:57] :) [09:57] not yet regged with it [10:02] how about multiplayer? has that taken off yet? [10:04] Well yes, all games we make are multiplayer [10:05] We use Neutron (from Exit Games) and Terraplay, both pretty good platforms (middleware) [10:05] ah I remember Terraplay! [10:05] are they successful now? does it work well? [10:05] it was all UDP right? [10:08] Now they have almost everything, its the leader in the world now I think [10:09] Neutron is a small German thing, but I don't like it any much.. [10:09] Yesterday I got a strange error, I mailed them and I got this reply: [10:09] "Sorry, we don't have that phone so we can't test it. We'll discus it the next big meeting" [10:09] (SIGH!) [10:11] * brx read it as "sorry, we don't have a phone" [10:11] "we are all just pretending" [10:15] That would be very bad :-P [10:16] Just testing on a emulator etc... well, if the emulators worked fine it would be no problem [11:05] Yes yes yeah! [11:06] Just solved a problem I run into 3 months ago, I left it undone and actually left it out of the program altogether...but when writing the paper I thought "Why didn't I try this/that" and now its solved ;-) [11:15] Finally my CRC check works.. [11:20] :-) [11:23] I'm trying to load one PNG image, and then in the J2ME code change the PLTE chuck so it has different colors, but some older phones do a second CRC check, and if you change the colors you need a new CRC.. [11:24] But J2ME doesn't have CRC standard, so I had to write it myself [11:24] But this does open a lot of possibiliteit and will save size [11:25] you 'colorise' them on the fly? neat [11:26] yeah, in the game we can now let people choose their own team-colors without having different sprites [12:03] * brx will continue hacking eve when he got a positive reply from uni [12:18] Wow, nice! The dutch halfpipe snowboardster that entered last-minute "to be with friends in Torino"....got into the finals :P [12:19] Postat av: Roy [12:19] Wow... you look great now :) [12:19] 2006-feb-13 @ 13:14:50 [12:19] still the stalker :P [12:19] oh, wrong channel :) [12:20] :-D [12:22] Stalker? just reader of log ;-) and uhm, YOU pointed me to that log 5min ago, not found by me..!! :-P [12:22] log==blog [12:47] Join: Mizcu joined #corewars [12:59] ohwyeah, live-stream is started, let the games begin :-) [12:59] * Roy loves the inter-webbie! [13:20] Nooo!! It freezes now the dutch girl is starting... [13:20] * Roy hates webstreams [13:20] X) [13:20] Dammit, now it runs again, and I missed the complete thing :@ [13:23] Heh, she got... the lowest score! probably fell on her bottoms.. [13:24] bottoms <3 [13:24] this being snowboarding or something seedier? [13:25] Join: joonas joined #corewars [13:25] hi J! [13:26] greets mizcu [13:26] how goes? [13:26] long time Joonas [13:26] hi will. [13:26] happy new year and all [13:26] yeah, you too. [13:26] Im just fine myself [13:26] Finally found some exotic sauce i've been searching, even if i had to go to Helsinki to buy it [13:27] chili? [13:27] Chili & Beanpaste [13:27] Toban Djan (or Toban Jan or Douban Jan or Douban Djan..) [13:27] what do you eat it with? [13:28] The most classic way is to use it with Pork and Tofu [13:28] Ma Po Dofu being name of the dish [13:28] sounds tasty. [13:28] don't think i've had pork & tofu ever. [13:29] where's jaska? [13:29] gone [13:30] But can't you just make the sauce yourself then? [13:30] the irc-logs can be found under koth.org [13:30] yeah, have been browsing them now and then. [13:30] Roy: you want to ferment beans at home? [13:31] canned beans won't do? [13:31] Heh, you can probably buy those more locally (?) [13:31] I doubt [13:31] bleh [13:32] But I'm happy you found it :) [13:32] enjoy your sauce mizcu :) [13:32] i shall [13:32] Wow Wow Sauce? [13:32] oops bit of lag [13:33] lol [13:35] so you got your house corners all straightened out will? :) [13:35] brb, now going to walk to the nearest tv for the next run :-( [13:37] well I had to cut the carpet to fit, as it were [13:37] (no carpets actually; being swedish with wooden floors) [13:38] how is the mapping going? [13:39] it goes. been on other projects for a while, but the mapping thing is starting up in earnest again. [13:40] really looking forward to it, actually. [13:42] any plans for species work? [13:45] well I can always dream [13:45] but with a baby on the way, no private coding time these days :-( [13:45] really?! congrats! [13:46] when's it due? [13:46] Wow cool! A small imp! [13:46] Congrats will [13:49] it must be that time of life... so many babies & kids. where'd that come from? :) [13:50] You really want us to explain where babies come from Joonas? :-P [13:50] heh. so many friends are having/have recently had kids, is all. [13:51] Around here the marriage fase has begon... [13:52] yeap, but *if* I get coding time, I'll definitely want to blast forwards with Species Blossom [13:52] it has all the coolest ideas (for people to steal) ;-) [13:52] Ideas you stole :P [13:52] (?) [13:52] you know, in the mean time, you could try try dreaming out loud. get everyone on their toes, so to speak. ;) [13:54] oh I mutter on to anyone who'll listen [13:55] * Roy always wants to listen about evolvers [13:55] You should know that Will ;-) [13:55] So Roy, do you know about Species Blossom? [13:56] back in two minutes [13:56] Erhm I know some about it, you have talked about it to me before [13:57] it's the focus on analysis i'm most keen on in species. [13:58] Does it still have meta-intrustions? [13:58] Does it seperate groups? [13:58] (island model?) [13:58] Does it have a EvolveWars plugin? :P [13:59] i'm not really uptodate on it or other cw matters i'm afraid. :/ [13:59] how did your evolver project go btw? [13:59] Hehe, read r.g.c about that EvolveWars :-) [13:59] Hrm, never finished it, it has a unexplainable bug.. [14:00] ah.. one of those. [14:00] But with this new job I don't have any time to analyse [14:00] So its rotting away somewhere [14:00] right! porting a game? sounds like a cool job. [14:01] hm. well, coolness in-potentia. [14:01] ;) [14:02] Porting a game? I'm only going to make the demo, leave the porting to other people! [14:02] Its a game we developed [14:03] ok.. i only sort of breezed through the logs. hence the confusion. [14:03] Hehe :) [14:03] It still uses Exhaust [14:04] Joonas I remember you helped with some using plot stuff, thx; hasn't been touched since then [14:04] were you still going to do some kind of analysis using micro-ops? [14:05] yes, it is my firm belief that it is crossover cleverness not brute force that will triumph [14:05] (I have just always lacked both) [14:06] Yay! [14:06] Long live the cleverness (I always liked that too) [14:06] most "evolvers" are more serial mutators in some random optimisation drive and a few hundred boxes [14:06] (aka bvowk) [14:06] If something doesnt work, apply Brute Force [14:06] Well, he has results to back him up ;-D [14:07] I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm only suggesting it might not be the best way [14:07] dmars will become a prerequisite soon enough; there won't be many desktops in five years with only one core [14:07] species blossom uses dmars (which happens to be implemented as a serial exhaust, but hey, the abstraction is there!) [14:08] indeed. seems to converge towards populations where the individuals are robust against his kind of mutation though. [14:08] .. see, I'm already back to being opinionated! [14:08] i think he posted about it on r.g.c. a while ago. [14:08] :) [14:08] there we go, then... :) [14:08] * willvarfa bows head in shame [14:09] (instert plug) And thats just why I like the idea of EvolveWars (end of plug) [14:09] aw.. don't go all british on us. [14:09] evolvewars is a great idea [14:09] I think species blossom would make a great node in such a network [14:09] It'll combine the extreme edges and share code to make something nice :) [14:13] I think at first it will make the most impact for people who are using the same evolver with the same params, just running different 'nodes' [14:15] Hrm no, I won't agree so easily, they will have the same result if they wait, the real surprises come when you combine different evolving strategies because they'll both develop in different ways [14:16] But combining those different warriors will spark more new code, thus (hopefully) better warriors instead of running the same evolver faster [14:16] (because thats basicly what you do if you have the same settings, just speed it up) [14:16] do the current crop of evolvers tend to go towards the same strategy i.e. stones/clears? [14:17] Err yes, I think they do [14:17] Bvowk's evolver tends slightly to go towards papers, but it does make tons of stones and stone/clears, and every once in a while a mini-scanner too [14:17] yeah.. first evolved jmz scanner i think. [14:18] Though there was the imp/clear-LPwarrior [14:18] (i'm not sure the microgp one counts... their oneshot looked *awfully* lot like a seeded warrior with some randomness chucked in it.) [14:18] That was nice [14:19] (the imp-clear, not microgp's) [14:20] hm. memory fails me.. did you get jmz scanners from species I? [14:21] I think so [14:22] ah.. [14:22] it quickly got unfit though and died by stoning [14:22] stones and clears are robust to incoming stones [14:22] * joonas erases "bvowk" and writes "willvarfa" on his mental whiteboard. [14:23] and most mutation algroithms are basically stoning-at-compile-time [14:23] sorry, didn't remember that. was floored when bvowk showed me the jmz scanner. iirc, said they'd come up every once in a while too, but then get washes by the stones. [14:23] so the only strands of warriors that can really survive the average attempt at breeding are the shortest stones and clears [14:24] I think I have to be particular [14:24] what I found once, by random inspection of my pot, was a clear that just started with a jmz so that it would 1c search for something before starting to clear [14:25] not sure that really counts [14:25] and like I said, it didn't really confer sufficient advantage compared to various other stones and clears, and probably for the wrong reasons [14:26] I don't recall, but maybe if the clear itself wasn't good enough, the jmz bit would be lost despite being a good idea [14:26] a warrior is the sum of its parts, after all [14:26] you know how evolvers are really good at finding small silver bullets, right? [14:26] 120+ wilfiz: http://redcoder.sourceforge.net/?p=species [14:27] but just very very tuned against wilfiz, and completely crap in general :-( [14:27] so instead of fighting that, by trying to make a complex generalist through evolving, why not try to evolve the components of a complex thing separately.. [14:27] then combine the silver bullets by evolving a boot and/or p-brain to go with them. [14:28] species chromosomes was never really used enough to be measured [14:29] but the good warriors are short? [14:29] maybe that breaks the evolver ethos.. i dunno. [14:29] not at all! [14:29] well most silver bullets are shortish. [14:29] but enough separate silver bullets to make a generalist? [14:29] oh sure. [14:30] someone please try it and prove me wrong! :-D [14:30] there use to be some really nice p-spacers that consisted of mostly silver bullest + one sort-of-generalist. [14:31] i forget all their names, i'm afraid. [14:32] there was one by ben ford that had this evolved tricksy p-brain. [14:33] :-( web-stream is now completly offline.. so much traffic, everybody wants to see this olympics speedskating (this week its number one sport in holland) [14:33] mh.. anyway, the thing about silver bullets in p-spacers is that you really want them to fail fast when they're being played against the wrong kind of opponent. [14:34] evolvers would be perfect at finding such things i guess. [14:34] yes, thats the strength of a p-spacer, losing.. [14:35] you mean it is good to optimise the constants used in pbrains? [14:36] its common to evolve the P^3-brains switchtables [14:37] "evolve" as in breeding and such [14:37] ? [14:37] p^3 is especially nice for that since its structure is so modular; basically any switch table can be realised. [14:38] closer to optimizing though, but Met used word evolve [14:38] i don't know exactly how people do it. i can see breeding definitely. [14:38] can -> could [14:39] and you asked where babies come from... [14:41] heh.. not quite optimising a state machine.. the difficult bit comes after. :) [14:41] :-) [14:47] http://koti.mbnet.fi/mizcu/tausta200602.jpg (dont bother watching if your boss is watching over your shoulder.. in which case you might shut down your IRC too ;) [14:49] who's that? [14:49] Some model [14:49] kinda reminds me of auymi hamasaki. [14:49] (sp?) [14:50] Isnt her [14:50] Ayumi ;) [14:55] reb00t --> [14:55] MSG: [14:58] Join: Mizcu joined #corewars [14:58] wb [15:00] time for me to go [15:00] * willvarfa waves [15:00] cya [15:00] Part: willvarfa left #corewars [15:02] ooh, 15 kbps over bluetooth -_- [15:04] oh damn.. going to be late. [15:04] bye [15:04] run joonas run!! [15:04] * joonas waves at the log [15:04] * Roy waves [15:04] (and those present.:) [15:04] MSG: Quit: [gone] [15:36] MSG: [15:40] Join: DrewHK joined #corewars [15:41] hi [18:40] Join: Roy joined #corewars [18:42] hi all [18:45] hi [18:56] yeh [19:14] Join: John joined #corewars [19:14] Hi [19:14] hi [19:15] hi [19:16] Brx: what's the solution for the 100 prisoners if the initial state of the light isn't known? [19:17] the same.. [19:17] ohw no.. well, the same but count to 100 ;-) [19:17] Pfff... [19:17] I should have realised that [19:17] Right..? :-) [19:18] No [19:19] no? [19:19] The counter will only ever reach 99 if the light is initially off [19:20] hrm.. [19:20] Maybe there isn't a solution..? [19:21] Unless the first prisoner in knows he is the first [19:22] But he doesn't.. [19:23] I found a decent weblog analyser [19:26] Nice, do you have it online? [19:27] ftp is being too slow at the moment [19:29] http://corewar.co.uk/report.htm [19:32] Someone was looking for CoreExplorer 3 according to the missing documents report :-) [19:33] hehe nice [19:33] damn, I have to go! [19:33] * Roy waves [19:33] MSG: [19:33] Most people find my web page through a google search for "Phil Knight" [19:33] * John waves [19:44] Someone tried to translate the Corewar crossword using google's language tools [19:45] I don't think it's possible to translate a crossword like that :-) [19:54] I'm ranked 3rd in google for searches for XXX+ [19:56] ? [19:58] brx, erlang is only interpreted? [20:13]