[00:11] Join: Icarus joined #corewars [00:24] MSG: Read error: Operation timed out [03:53] Join: brx_ joined #corewars [03:56] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [06:34] Join: caesar joined #corewars [06:35] hi [06:36] MSG: Client Quit [09:04] Join: Metcalf joined #corewars [09:04] Hi [10:02] Join: Fluffy joined #corewars [10:02] :) [10:03] Hi Jens [10:03] Hmm ... still 3000 patches to go. [10:03] It's nice to see the score surface project is doing so well [10:04] :) [10:04] But I need some inspiration for a 94nop-warrior. Which one should I take for a score-surface? [10:05] eek [10:06] I've forgotten, that it will take hours to download the new data. [10:06] :-( [10:07] I'm not sure which would give the most interesting results [10:07] I suggested in r.g.cw 2by4k which only has 2 constants [10:07] That's why I've asked for warrior proposals [10:09] Should you make a score surface project warrior? [10:09] Like YAP? [10:10] Submit it o the hill, with ;author DiSSC :-) [10:10] Join: Mizcu joined #corewars [10:11] Hi Mizcu [10:11] hi Met [10:11] early you are, today [10:11] It's my day off! [10:11] right [10:12] The first one for about 10 days [10:15] Nick Change: Fluffy changed nick to Fluffyafk [10:22] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [11:06] Nick Change: brx_ changed nick to brx [12:11] Join: fiveop joined #corewars [12:11] MSG: Quit: Lost terminal [12:26] MSG: Quit: dat # 1, < 1 [14:16] Join: brx joined #corewars [14:25] MSG: Quit: leaving [14:31] Join: brx joined #corewars [14:31] * brx can't really use 1024x768 anymore [14:31] too small. [14:43] * asw waves to all [14:47] Join: Fluffy joined #corewars [14:47] :) [14:47] hmm ... apparently I'm not getting new patches for DiSSC [14:48] still about 1300 paches not completed [15:04] 15520 completed patches, bvowk 13630, brx 947, Sascha 661, Fluffy 201, Roy 78 :-) [15:15] Join: sascha joined #corewars [15:16] Hi Sascha [15:17] Hi Jens [15:30] Join: bvowk joined #corewars [15:30] Hi bvowk :) [15:30] Hello Barkley, Master of Patches [15:30] heh [15:31] bvowk: It seems, that I no longer get patches from your computers [15:31] I prefer lord of the patches or god of computrons myself. [15:31] yeah.. I had to stop and wait for them to timeout I think [15:31] No, you are now a "Score Surface Dwarf" ;-) [15:31] you stopped handing me new ones [15:31] Did I? [15:32] apparently.. because I had 14 hours worth of workers queued and they all died [15:32] Hmm ... my two clients just run fine [15:32] and according to my database there are at the moment about 1000 free patches [15:33] just fired up a bunch more and they're going now [15:33] ... and 300 being worked on [15:33] In any case there are about 1300 patches left [15:33] not for long :) [15:33] :) [15:33] thats 3 hours worth :) [15:34] I was hoping met was still going to be around [15:34] Sometimes it helps to shout his name [15:34] JOHN!!! [15:35] JOOOOOOHOOOOOOON [15:36] No, doesn't work this time :-( [15:56] bvowk: New patches are flowing in :-) [16:05] * Fluffy is away for a while ... [16:07] * sascha waves [16:07] Part: sascha left #corewars [16:53] a course of reindeer-meat coming up <3 [16:54] how's it being done? [16:54] pan-fried and stewed for 5 mins [16:54] mmm. excellent choice. [16:55] I myself am having regular deer stew for supper tonite [16:56] brx: is it possible that the jabber conversation has huge delays ... sometimes you comment stuff that I have stated minutes ago and is then totaly out of context [16:57] fiveop: yes, its completely possible.. in times of really bad network congestion you can have long packet delays. [17:19] Join: Metcalf joined #corewars [17:19] Did someone shout? [17:21] bvowk, he's here [17:25] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [17:26] how do I end a offical english latter properly? [17:27] with best regards ... or somethign? [17:27] How did you start it? [17:27] fiveop: "All you base are belong to us"? [17:27] ;-) [17:27] (hallo folks, lurk over!) [17:31] hey met [17:31] bvowk: too late :-( [17:32] Icarus: Dear someone [17:32] Yours Faithfully then? [17:32] hm [17:33] no [17:33] Yours Sincerely [17:33] Dear Sir -> Yours Faithfully [17:34] Dear Professor Asdfasdfasdf was the exact term :P [17:34] great name ;) [17:35] I'd go for Yours Sincerely. Depends on just how formal you want to be, I guess [18:42] Join: Core29 joined #corewars [18:52] MSG: Quit: leaving [18:53] Join: brx joined #corewars [19:46] MSG: Remote host closed the connection [19:48] Join: brx joined #corewars [20:00] MSG: Remote host closed the connection [20:03] Join: brx joined #corewars [20:55] MSG: Remote host closed the connection [21:14] Join: billie joined #corewars [21:14] Nick Change: billie changed nick to cornflake [21:14] Nick Change: cornflake changed nick to billie [21:15] peekaboo! [21:15] ? [21:15] hey [21:15] does anyone know of a x86 corewar client? [21:16] pmars [21:16] http://sf.net/projects/pmars [21:16] you use x86 assembler with it? [21:16] ah ... yes [21:16] one moment [21:16] i don't really care what the client itself was written in, so to speak [21:18] hmm ... can't find the link ... I know, that there is that game, where two x86asm programs fight against each other like the usual corewar [21:18] Are you talking about that? [21:18] aye, that sounds right [21:18] hmm [21:18] i got a hit on soruceforge [21:18] but it was only source code in java [21:19] no, that's not, what you want [21:19] and i'm too lazy to compile all that :] [21:19] no, i wouldn't have a clue [21:19] i am totally new to corewars too [21:19] and [21:19] i just really interested in x86 assembler [21:19] and figured it'd be perfect to combine with corewars [21:19] found it [21:19] yay \o/ [21:20] http://sourceforge.net/projects/corewars8086 [21:20] oh ... it is written in that coffee thing, too [21:21] didn't know that [21:21] yes, that's the one i found too :] [21:21] but [21:22] Join: brx joined #corewars [21:22] i didn't download the binary last time, which was kind of silly [21:22] i just need java though [21:22] i only have jre [21:22] which i'm guessing won't do? [21:23] I don't know, never played it [21:23] yeah [21:23] i mean for compiling the program though, but never mind [21:24] I know, what you mean, but since I've never played it, I can't know :-) [21:24] do you know of a good place to download example code for corewars? [21:24] for normal Redcode? [21:24] you've never played the java client, or never played corewars in general? :p [21:25] um, is redcode much different from x86 asm? [21:25] I think, that you are mixing several therm [21:25] *terms [21:25] preferably x86, but redcode would do in lack of that, i guess :) [21:25] There is the "classical" game called Corewar [21:25] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corewar [21:26] aye, i read that page. just today, and is basically why i came here :p [21:26] the x86-thing is sth. similar [21:26] but not quite the same [21:26] "our" corewar uses a language called Redcode [21:26] ah actually i didn't read that particular page on wikipedia, but a similar one [21:26] similar to assembler, but has some unique features [21:27] alright [21:27] a short Redcode guide can be found at http://vyznev.net/corewar/guide.html [21:27] why not just use a "real" existing assembler though? [21:27] examples at http://www.ociw.edu/~birk/COREWAR/koenigstuhl.html [21:27] ta :) [21:28] CW was developed around 1984 [21:28] small and slow computer -> simple and easy language [21:28] But you probably have to ask A.K.Dewdney himself ;-) [21:29] He'll probably answer to that question :) [21:29] hehe [21:29] x86 is "small and simple" though, but oh well [21:30] x86? small and simple? [21:30] where do you live? [21:30] sweden [21:30] why? :p [21:30] no, no, [21:30] perhaps not simple to learn, but very simplistic, etc. [21:31] "where do you live?" was meant rhetorically (hell, how do you spell that) [21:31] ah yeah, i figured after i read that again :p [21:31] and it's spelled correctly too! :p [21:32] In any case, I don't know, how many player are there for the x86-variant, but there are a lot for the "normal" Redcode [21:32] fairy nuff [21:32] It can be played at koth.org and http://sal.math.ualberta.ca/ [21:32] aye. i was linked here from koth.org in the first place [21:32] hmm [21:33] is there a lot of progress in the corewars scene, meaning the actual code (the "bots"? or whatever you'd call them?) change much over the years [21:33] (warriors) [21:33] or it's basically just minor alterings [21:33] warriors, right [21:34] Depends on how you define progress [21:34] The "technology" behind the warriors has developed very rapidly over the years [21:34] the language itself hasn't changed much [21:34] We are still playing according to a standard from '94 [21:35] well, are new techniques developed all the time to counter measure other warriors, etc. [21:35] hmm ... difficult to answer [21:35] there are still the basic types of warriors [21:36] Depends on viewpoint. There havent been truly radical changes, but there has been some notable changes. [21:36] since the "hardware" remains the same, i'm thinking sooner or later someone will write the "perfect" warrior, and thus there'd be no point in corewars anymore, if you know what i mean [21:36] too many variables [21:37] and unlikely, that such a thing exists [21:37] well, yes [21:37] even for "nano" settings (only 5 instructions) we still have surprises [21:37] mm [21:38] what kind of surprises though? [21:38] Do you know, what a hill is? [21:38] nope [21:39] i only started reading up on corewars an hour ago or so [21:39] after reading a book before christmas that mentioned it [21:39] take a look at http://www.koth.org/lcgi-bin/current.pl?hill94nop [21:39] okay [21:39] we sent warriors there and they fight all the warriors in the "hill" (that list there) [21:39] Join: Metcalf joined #corewars [21:39] Hi [21:39] if they are good enough the push some else from the hil [21:40] Hi John :) [21:40] hola Metcalf [21:40] And if the are really good they become number One [21:40] (=koth = King of the hill) [21:40] aye. i got that part, hehe :) [21:40] ok [21:41] The code of these warrior is usually not published after they've been pushed off [21:41] do these warriors fight constantly for a set period of time, or they just fight a set of matches, like a sports tournament? [21:41] They only fight, when there is a challenger [21:42] okay [21:42] you fight against each warrior a number of rounds [21:42] you get 3 points, if you win, 1 point for tie, 0 if you die [21:42] the result is averaged over many rounds [21:42] That's the score against one warrior [21:42] you fight against all warriors on the hill [21:43] that result is again averaged [21:43] if your score is high enough, you enter [21:43] i'm also guessing many authors aren't too keen on releasing the source code to the public domain either, as that would ruin their chances of success later on? [21:43] no, it is quite common to release the code afterwards [21:43] or even while your warrior in on the hill [21:44] okay [21:44] hmm [21:44] It it quite easy to beat one opponent [21:44] But it is hard to be good against many different strategies [21:44] surely some warriors are, say for example, only effective versus a certain other warrior, but not very good versus some other warriors, right? [21:44] yes [21:45] so, the thing is to write one that is effective against a wide array of different types of other warriors? [21:45] yes, that's one aim [21:45] any other aims? :p [21:45] The other is to stay as long as possible on the hill [21:45] aye [21:45] i.e. over many (successful) challenges [21:45] i'm guessing that would be a side effect though, heh [21:46] yes [21:46] is there currently a "world champion"? [21:46] over age, Son of Vain [21:46] hmm ... under what rules? [21:46] oh, i don't know anything about the rules, so, beats me [21:47] the most common ruleset? [21:47] I meant how do you define "world champion" [21:47] as in: the one that beats the most other existing warriors [21:48] Go to Koenigstuhl and look for the #1 for each setting [21:48] http://www.ociw.edu/~birk/COREWAR/koenigstuhl.html :-) [21:48] it depends on ruleset, but under the most popular ruleset (94nop) it is Hullabaloo [21:48] i think i'm comparing this a little too much with chess engines, heh [21:48] alright [21:48] But usually you really say, that Son of Vain was one of the best warrior :) [21:49] mkay? :p why is that? [21:49] it survived what, 2200 challenges? And is 9th at koeningstuhl 94nop [21:49] it's funny how the lfs page mentions *security* as a reason to choose lfs. [21:49] fluff. [21:49] is the Hullab3loo code available somewhere? [21:50] billie: http://corewars.jgutzeit.de/history/94nop.en.html might be of interest [21:50] okay, ta [21:50] Hullab3loo isn't published yet [21:50] okie [21:50] http://www.ociw.edu/~birk/COREWAR/94/HILL/hullabaloo.red here is the "original" hullabaloo [21:50] but probably similar to Hullaballo (#1 on 94nop@Koenigstuhl) [21:51] brx: Is there a security problem with LFS? [21:51] are most warriors' code usually that short? [21:51] 94nop has a 100 instruction-limit [21:51] ah [21:52] and out of hullabaloo 30 instructions are empty anyway [21:52] well, 39 to be exact [21:53] Fluffy: I am not aware of any. the page however states that it is of security benefit to compile everything from source. neglecting the fact that most people who are bound to follow such instructions are simply incapable of auditing the source. it'd be much more safe to trust an established distribution. [21:54] something *tested* by hundreds or thousands of people with the right background. [21:54] brx: Is that a problem? ;-) [21:55] brx: Remember, that I don't care as long as it isn't my problem ;-) [21:55] uh, yeah, sure. [21:56] ... and even if it is, I usually DEFINE it not to be my problem [21:57] well.. uh, nevermind. [21:57] .oO ( fluffy ? ) [21:57] Sorry, but I'm just satisfied, that my LFS is running just fine [21:57] well, i should go to bed. thanks for the help all! [21:58] good night billie [21:58] Part: billie left #corewars [21:58] Join: Fluff1 joined #corewars [21:58] * Fluff1 kicks his computer [21:58] Fluffy: of course, I am just pondering if I should choose lfs for my thinkpad, considering that I will be moving it around in public places a lot. [21:59] brx: You should be more concerned, what happens to your data, if you loose your laptop [21:59] Fluff1: I will regularly sync it with my desktop. I don't see the problem. [21:59] I'd cry for the thinkpad though :) [22:00] but if you were implying data *theft*, that won't be a problem. [22:00] I will be able to keep it relatively safe. [22:00] I would never imply, that data can be stolen from you. [22:00] ;-) [22:01] MSG: Read error: Operation timed out [22:01] Nick Change: Fluff1 changed nick to Fluffy [22:01] well, it happens on a regular basis [22:01] brx: But I might be able to borrow your data now, that I have access to your compuer via my little score surface client [22:01] a neighbour of mine, a 60 year old guy regularly roots my box [22:02] I haven't been able to come up with hard evidence yet, but the way he grins at me .. I just know he does it [22:02] lol [22:03] do you know how those old arcade machines blink and flash their lights? [22:03] old? I'm not old ;-) [22:03] I swear my router does the same from times to times. it is not documented in the handbook and the way it flashes is ridiculous [22:03] brx: How many drugs have you taken? [22:03] * brx takes a look at the client source [22:04] hmm ... I've got 66 score surfaces [22:04] ... fluffy, I am going to sue you. [22:04] I should have taken other warriors [22:04] your program opens a port to the internet [22:04] socket [22:04] socks? [22:04] yes, it socks [22:05] blue or red ones? [22:05] It always mix my socks [22:05] and sometimes they vanish [22:05] also, it's not the quantity that matters :) [22:06] bvowk: Are you there? [22:07] "building an lfs system is no easy task, the user should at least know how to move or copy files around from the shell" [22:07] quite difficult is that, I think [22:08] yes, but those requirements make sense if you remember that only advanced users can secure their lfs [22:09] brx: what is lfs? [22:09] :(){:&:;} [22:09] What does that mean? [22:10] I have heard lfs is linux from scratch [22:10] hrm [22:10] ah bvowk [22:10] bvowk: The patches, that you are working on now come it a little bit slower, because they have to timeout first. [22:10] I hope, that you don't mind [22:10] it's a butterfly fluffy. your shell might like to see the occasional butterfly [22:11] s'ok [22:12] Hi Bvowk [22:12] Did you want me? :-) [22:13] by the way: 16730 completed patches (419325000 fights!), bvowk 14796, Sascha 706, brx 947, Roy 78, Fluffy 202 :-) [22:15] The day that power is used to evolve sth. for 94nop I become really scared [22:15] Fluffy: ? 94nop has seen that power before. [22:15] Machines Will Rule? [22:16] Maybe we'll soon see the first evolved koth for 94nop [22:22] what are you patching? [22:22] nothing [22:22] Icarus: http://corewars.jgutzeit.de/score_surfaces/index.en.html [22:23] ooh [22:23] And don't tell me, that it would be nice image for a t-shirt ;-) [22:24] lol :) [22:24] I've already suggested that and nobody wanted to pay for it [22:28] MSG: Quit: humhum [22:46] Does anyone happen to have a 1 pixel by 1 pixel transparent ping handy? :-) [22:46] ping equ png [22:46] yes [22:46] one moment ... I mail it [22:46] Thanks [22:46] cant think of any use for such other than webbugs [22:46] [22:47] Fluffy: it's not a copyright image is it? [22:47] lol [22:47] if you need a spacer or similiar, well, fix the css [22:47] It's not for my webpage. [22:48] Martin Ankerl has given me permission to put his software on my webpage. [22:48] :-) [22:48] mail is out [22:48] And one of his pages uses a 1 x 1 png, which I haven't got [22:48] Thanks Jens [22:49] oops ... it is white [22:49] one moment [22:49] MSG: [22:49] I'll send you the transparent one [22:50] :-) [22:51] now it is the transparent one [22:52] Thanks [22:52] But the white one is copyrighted [22:52] I charge you 200 Euro [22:52] I got the stuff out of the web archive, and some bits were missing [22:53] I hope, that you will include his source code [22:53] for yace [22:53] I needed a special character at work, and the only one I could find was a single characcter in a ttf for $295 [22:53] I will include everything I can [22:53] hmm ... maybe it was US-$ ;-) [22:54] *wasn't [22:54] It was! [22:54] Wait a few years ... maybe a 1 US $ isn't worth anything by then [22:54] Strange thing is, it is a symbol which wouldn't be used in the US [22:55] They've probably got it by invading the country, which uses it [22:55] and now they have to get their money for the invasion back ;-) [22:55] It's the European eweight symbol. [22:55] I don't recall being invaded [22:56] It was a silent invasion (with the help of T. Blair ;-) [22:57] Are there any McDonald's near you, John? [22:58] MSG: Quit: mh [22:59] Jens: that transparent png is double the size of the white one :-( [22:59] ? [22:59] Yes, there are two in town [22:59] See, then you've been invaded ;-) [23:00] I don't eat there unless I'm desperate [23:01] Metcalf: sent you another transparent 1x1 PNG [23:01] Thanks! [23:01] If you see sth. different, it is a bug in your viewer [23:02] I only have 50MB webspace, I have to be careful ;-) [23:02] lol [23:02] Maybe I should abandon my cw-homepage and hand it over to you [23:03] Even the score surfaces need more than 100 MiB :-) [23:03] The latest one is a black dot! [23:03] No, it is NOT [23:04] what program are you using? [23:04] IE? [23:04] No, Firefox [23:05] How about using a 1x1 PNG, which has the same color as the background? [23:05] Or rewriting the page with css? [23:05] I've no intention of rewriting someone else's page [23:06] http://apps.everamber.com/alpha/ [23:06] (but I don't know, whether it works for you) [23:08] MSG: Quit: Leaving [23:08] Join: asw joined #corewars [23:09] Join: brx joined #corewars [23:09] Thanks jens, that's neat [23:09] :) [23:10] I think, that I have to change my attitude. I want to destroy earth and not be polite ;-) [23:10]