[01:18] MSG: Quit: using sirc version 2.211+ssfe [03:10] MSG: Quit: emacs reboot [03:37] Join: brx joined #corewars [03:55] Join: brx` joined #corewars [03:57] MSG: Read error: Operation timed out [03:57] MSG: Client Quit [03:58] Join: brx joined #corewars [06:06] Join: brx` joined #corewars [06:07] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [10:47] Join: |caesar| joined #corewars [10:47] <|caesar|> brx? [11:07] <|caesar|> hi [11:16] Join: brx`` joined #corewars [11:18] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [11:45] Join: brx``` joined #corewars [11:47] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [12:25] Join: brx```` joined #corewars [12:27] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [12:31] Nick Change: brx```` changed nick to brx [12:52] Join: fiveop joined #corewars [12:56] Join: Mizcu joined #corewars [13:27] morn m, fop [13:27] mizu [13:30] h [13:44] <|caesar|> h mizcu [13:44] hi caesar [13:44] <|caesar|> ~~~ [13:44] <|caesar|> see u again:) [13:44] <|caesar|> happy [13:46] <|caesar|> how r u,mizcu? [13:46] as before. Not much has changed. [13:48] <|caesar|> oh yea? [13:49] <|caesar|> how about corewar? [13:49] havent had time for it [13:50] <|caesar|> :( yea me too. [13:50] <|caesar|> and my english still bad..just like u see [14:00] <|caesar|> ok bye mizcu [14:00] <|caesar|> i think some new guys are come here [14:02] Part: |caesar| left #corewars [14:12] MSG: Quit: as [16:03] Join: Fluffy joined #corewars [16:03] Join: sf joined #corewars [16:03] Hello [16:03] :) [16:03] Hi Fluff [16:04] Is your "y"-key missing? [16:04] The "" ke? [16:04] ;-) [16:09] brb [16:09] MSG: Quit: leaving [16:09] Join: Fluffy joined #corewars [16:09] welcome back [16:10] Do you know if Zul's nano warriors are evolved? [16:10] Don't know. [16:12] again 10 minutes wasted at bash.org :-) [16:13] hehe [16:28] I can't find any of us on bash.org [16:33] Then post sth. to bash.org :-) [16:33] I would know what to pick out [16:33] there's nothing funny about us [16:34] expect your name perhaps [16:35] What is so funny about "Jens"? [16:35] ;-) [16:35] Who's Jens? [16:35] lol [16:35] Don't know. I've never met him. [16:36] Has Roy's webpage vanished [16:51] MSG: Quit: Bersirc 2.2, for external use only. [ http://www.bersirc.org/ - Open Source IRC ] [16:54] Join: brx joined #corewars [16:54] * brx is back with a new irc client [16:54] .oO ( ported functions from erc ... uh ... ? ) [16:54] .oO ( wait.. ? ) [16:55] .oO ( this is not working right ... ? ) [16:55] circe doesn't split the strings [16:57] * Fluffy waves [16:57] MSG: Quit: leaving [16:57] .oO ( better ... ) [16:57] .oO ( better ... I ... think ? ) [17:00] MSG: [17:02] Join: brx joined #corewars [17:33] Join: sf joined #corewars [17:39] MSG: Quit: Bersirc 2.2: All the original sexiness of Bersirc, open to the world. [ http://www.bersirc.org/ - Open Source I [17:51] Join: Fluffy joined #corewars [18:04] Join: willvarfa joined #corewars [18:05] Hi willvarfa [18:06] hello folks [18:06] I've taken a look at Blossom ... [18:07] You should make your zip-archive not to unpack in the current directory [18:08] sorry [18:08] No need to [18:08] In any case it compiled fine under debian [18:08] ah cool [18:08] But how do I use it [18:08] ? [18:08] I'd had reports of problems with recent gcc [18:09] well what are your interests? [18:09] I've tested in under Debian (current stable) with gcc 3.3.5 [18:09] when you run it, it is hardcoded to load a bunch of benchmarks and then generate a soup of genetic warriors and then breed them and then score one [18:09] generally, you can expect it to score pretty bad! [18:10] what is its default hill? [18:10] 94nop? [18:10] yeap [18:10] basically, blossom is the beginnings of a new evolver [18:11] it works a bit differently from others [18:11] in which way? [18:11] prehaps the more interesting part is that the MARS is designed to be distributed [18:11] well, let me find the diagrams :-) [18:14] http://redcoder.sourceforge.net/?p=stats_fsh94nop [18:15] are you a programmer, Fluffy? [18:15] Kind of :) [18:16] I'll tell you, if I don't understand, what you mean [18:16] so, a long while back last year Roy was doing an evolver and I was enthusiastically trying to convince him to do it the way I'd have done it (my fifth or so time) [18:17] of course, I ended up *starting* to do it my sixth time [18:17] hehe [18:17] so the aims of an evolver are not, actually, to get on the hill [18:17] Roy's aims was to get a high score [18:17] hmm ... so far it sounds strange, but go on [18:17] and the most important results were plots and graphs and things that people could grasp [18:18] so, hence Blossom [18:18] Blossom gives each warrior a score [18:18] that score has three components [18:18] the score against a classic paper benchmark, a classic scissor benchmark, and a classic stone benchmark [18:19] ok [18:19] I took the optimax benchmarks and gave them these scores; the results are in the graph on that link [18:20] it can be noticed that the warriors are not getting terribly high scores; of the conceptual max of 100,100,100 they are clustering around the 50,50,50 [18:20] I know, what you want, but it is kind of hard to see the acutal results on your image [18:20] well if you have used gnuplot before, I recommend you run the files on that page through it and see what it looks like [18:21] it looks a lot better when you can spin it around in 3D and see it from other angles; much better feel [18:21] k [18:21] will do [18:21] so those warriors have been grouped by human experts [18:21] when you look at their scores by these benchmarks, you'll see they also cluster quite nicely [18:22] previously I've worked on identifying "fingerprints" for warriors; warriors and peer warriors with a similiar strategy have a definite 'fingerprint' of opcodes [18:22] too [18:23] http://redcoder.sourceforge.net/?p=kepler-wilfiz <-- click on a warrior name to see the graphcs [18:24] http://redcoder.sourceforge.net/kepler-wilfiz/16/ <-- I haven't looked at Numb, but the graphs seem to say it is very similiar to Reepicheep.. [18:27] cool [18:27] I've thought about comparing warriors, too, but only got so far as finding the longest similar part [18:30] did gnuplot work? [18:31] have to install it first [18:31] :-) [18:31] I takes find of long with 64 kbits/sec [18:31] he has to compile it because he doesn't use a distro [18:31] well the idea of blossom is to rate each evolved warrior by the three benchmarks [18:32] parents of children are not choosen by absolute score [18:32] instead, they are choosen by nearness; two nearby warriors can 'mate' [18:32] willvarfa: I have toyed with a similar idea but wanted to include clustering mechanisms for evolved warriors [18:33] yes, clustering is interesting [18:33] Species, my first, second and third evolver, all used Islands [18:33] populations of warriors who couldn't interbreed with other populations [18:34] Blossom has only one population (well, it can have more, but it is intended to work with one) [18:34] that population will cluster because breeding is dependent upon nearness in the score cube, not absolute score [18:35] (absolute score has, in my experience, bred only lots of stones and clears...) [18:35] he who must not be named gave me some code last year so I could chain gnuplot and use that to render the state of the population while the evolver is running [18:36] so you can get a live feel for the pond [18:36] using arrows to link a child to its two parents, like a tree [18:36] Join: Core29 joined #corewars [18:36] hopefully growing towards the 50,50,50 mark [18:37] sorry for the monologue [18:37] willvarfa: gnuplot works now [18:37] interesting graphics :) [18:37] that was polite :-) [18:39] It would be nice to know for each warrior on Koenigstuhl how stony, papery or scanny it is [18:41] yes [18:41] Did you try to find out, where simple warriors are on that chart [18:41] I mean for instance, where is an imp or dwarf located? [18:44] no I did not [18:44] it would not take too much crunch to work it all out [18:44] I'd expect imp and dwarf to be at 0,0,0 [18:45] which is pretty sad [18:45] if you can put a warrior at 55,55,55 then you will probably have a KOTH! [18:45] what would be interesting would be to run the KOTHs-past through it, and see if they plot a line from 0,0,0 to 50,50,50 straight, or if it waves a bit [18:46] Difficult [18:46] I mean once you have the code of all koths it should be easy [18:46] but finding that code is the hard part [18:47] A while ago I had the idea to link the warriors at my Time Machine to their code [18:47] But I couldn't work out an easy way to do it [18:48] For the future it is probably a good idea to create some kind of standard to associate each warrior with a SHA1 or sth. [18:49] koths are rarely published with the exact constants that they were on the hill with etc [18:49] I know [18:49] you on 64Kbps? The next page is kind of big... [18:50] I have a flatrate :) [18:50] but what is big? [18:50] 1 MiB? [18:50] http://redcoder.sourceforge.net/opexfreq/94-nop-100.html [18:50] this is a table of the top 100 warriors fighting each and every other [18:50] it is a year or so old [18:50] took a while to generate [18:50] thanks to bvowk for the cycles and GB of diskspace :-) [18:51] how many rounds did you use? [18:51] 100 [18:51] and I recorded each and every opcode, in order [18:51] Yes, I've already look at that data [18:52] (hence the stats to generate those fingerprints, and start doing clustering) [18:52] and will use it once I've started to implement an '94-MARS [18:52] the next step is expand the MARS to offer tainting [18:52] so that as a core cell field or opcode is written to, it is 'tainted' [18:53] redcoder2 does this, but I haven't got around to making it part of DMARS [18:53] * willvarfa is a believer that cleverer algos will beat horsepower in evolving [18:54] * willvarfa uses Exhaust on a single machine still, to walk his walk ;-) [18:54] At least good algo with help [18:54] Join: sascha joined #corewars [18:55] Hi Sascha [18:55] I had some lucky runs with the first Species; 140 wilfiz once [18:55] on a single P3 running overnight [18:55] Hello Jens...whats goin on? [18:55] What are the surfaces doin? [18:56] Fluffy == Jens? [18:56] Sascha: I've been lazy and haven't published the new data so far [18:56] * willvarfa feels a bit foolish :-) [18:56] Who's Jens? [18:57] sascha, who is Jens? [18:58] sascha: I promise to publish some data tomorrow evening [18:58] willvarfa: me :) [18:58] then you are perfect for making DMARS Distribute! [18:58] why? [18:59] coder [18:59] we have a shortage of them with time on their hands :-) [18:59] I don't have much time [18:59] the next generation MARS has to be multicore/chip ready [18:59] DMARS is the interface to such a setup [18:59] At the moment I trade sleep witth time [19:00] ah same here [19:00] except time != computer-face-time [19:00] willvarfa: I'm working on PyCorewar [19:00] It might be good enough to fit into your ideas [19:00] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [19:02] In any case I hope, that version 0.2.0 of PyCorewar will be finished this month [19:02] Then I can start to work an its '94-MARS [19:02] cool! [19:03] It already works quite well, but the source is kind of ugly [19:03] and there are still some issues with the parser [19:04] is the MARS itself to be written in python? [19:04] no, C [19:04] Join: John joined #corewars [19:04] Hi [19:04] Hi John [19:04] is it a new MARS? [19:04] new? [19:04] or based upon Exhaust or something? [19:05] hmm ... I've stolen serveral ideas, but written it from scratch [19:05] * willvarfa has to go; after 20:00 [19:05] * Fluffy waves [19:05] great! thats the funnest part :-) [19:05] MSG: Remote host closed the connection [19:06] * John waves [19:14] * Fluffy waves [19:14] MSG: Quit: leaving [19:49] Join: bvowk joined #corewars [19:49] * bvowk rattles metcalf logophonically [19:51] (greets all) [19:57] Hi Bvowk [19:57] If you'd said John instead of Metcalf I would have got a nice been to alert me! [19:59] hey met :) [19:59] I've got code for you.. [19:59] I used lds and sts (load stream byte and store stream byte) [19:59] Oh :-) [20:00] Thanks [20:00] Is it somewhere I can download or did you want to email it? [20:02] he who must not be mentioned might be able to compile a windows version for you.. [20:02] its still unixy for me. [20:03] Oh :-) [20:03] Well if you let me know exactly how lds and sts work, I can start writing code while I wait ;-) [20:04] right now they're identical to ldp and stp [20:04] just they spew to screen or read from stdin [20:04] Are strings implemented? [20:04] not yet [20:04] Or chars? [20:04] Okay, I code without them [20:04] well.. they're partly implemented.. I just want to make sure the instructions are right before I go twiddling with the pseudo-ops and the parser [20:04] So, sts 65 would write an "A" to the screen [20:05] yup [20:05] And lds 10 would put a character read from the keyboard 10 locations after the lds instruction [20:06] do the both ignore opcode modifiers? [20:06] no.. [20:06] sadly, its byte out in a stream.. [20:06] uh.. [20:06] sorry. [20:06] actually, that should be sts #65 shouldn't it [20:06] scratch that. [20:06] I'm going to go get some food.. and then we'll talk, I might make sense then. [20:06] :-) [20:18] Join: DrewHK joined #corewars [20:19] Hi Drew [20:19] hi [20:21] What have you been up to recently? [20:22] reading, working, playing [20:23] Oh [20:23] What are you reading? [20:24] Join: sascha joined #corewars [20:24] Hi Sascha [20:24] legend of the five rings, probability theory, some publications [20:25] Hello John...sorry for pushing Dark Crystal -- [20:25] :-( [20:25] It wasn't that good [20:26] Oh, but for me... 181 wins from a scanner is a nice thing for a paper ;-) [20:26] it was very happy about that last time i have spoken with him ;-) [20:27] I've read Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World, The Portable Door, In Your Dreams and Gormenghast so far this year [20:28] Dark Crystal was just an experiment. I posted the code here by mistake anyway! [20:28] Farenheit is a good one [20:28] Brave New World too [20:29] btw, brx, did you recieve the Star Diary? [20:30] got a windows binary coming for you shortly met [20:31] DrewHK: I have not yet bought it. [20:32] oh [20:32] I seem to be reading through this list without realising it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dystopian_novels [20:33] bvowk: [20:35] You may want to read Arthur Koestler: Darkness at Noon [20:35] Does anyone know what the connection repair settings do? [20:36] Join: John_ joined #corewars [20:39] Join: brx- joined #corewars [20:39] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [20:40] Join: John__ joined #corewars [20:40] Nick Change: John__ changed nick to John [20:40] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [20:40] Nick Change: brx- changed nick to brx [20:44] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [20:47] Join: John__ joined #corewars [20:48] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [20:48] Nick Change: John__ changed nick to John [20:55] Join: John__ joined #corewars [20:55] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [20:57] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [20:57] Nick Change: John__ changed nick to John [21:00] Join: John__ joined #corewars [21:02] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [21:02] Nick Change: John__ changed nick to John [21:07] heh [21:07] MSG: Read error: Connection reset by peer [21:07] I'd say that connection repair isn't your friend john. [21:07] Join: John__ joined #corewars [21:07] Nick Change: John__ changed nick to John [21:09] Join: John__ joined #corewars [21:09] MSG: Read error: Connection reset by peer [21:09] Nick Change: John__ changed nick to John [21:10] I seem to be having connection problems [21:13] I can't access hotmail or email over this wireless connection. [21:13] I have no idea if it's a setting I need to change [21:13] likely its filtered [21:13] you need to learn to ssh tunnel :) [21:13] you could do that with sage and putty :) [21:16] incoming john [21:22] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [21:22] Join: John__ joined #corewars [21:22] Nick Change: John__ changed nick to John [21:22] met.. [21:22] I sent you some binary [21:22] and met, you need to find a non-aol uplink.. [21:23] there ought to be laws against crappy uplinks. [21:25] :-) [21:25] Did you send it to ? [21:28] yup [21:28] Thanks :-) [21:29] No sign of it yet though :-( [21:31] hopefully soon. [21:31] I might have needed to .zip the exe tho [21:31] No, wait [21:32] Stupid googlemail bounces all exe attachments [21:32] Even zip files containing exe :-( [21:32] protect it with password [21:33] Sometimes computer put a lot of obstacles in the way of actually getting something done :-( [21:34] i found an unknown malware on my friends computer, and i wanted to email it to me [21:35] so i putted it in a password protected rar [21:35] i password protected the filelists too, so you cannot even see what was in it [21:35] i tried virustotal and scanned with many virus scanners, it was really unknown [21:35] and the twist [21:36] the mail server dropped, because it was unable to look in it, and passed an error code which was the same when a file is infected [21:37] try that met. [21:37] and that virus scanner never found it if i do not compress :) [21:42] any lucjk? [21:47] No :-( [21:47] ffs. [21:48] Maybe would accept it [21:48] away. [21:49] :-) [21:51] is that a smile cause you got it? [21:55] No :-( [21:56] I'm having problems [21:56] MSG: [21:58] MSG: Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com [22:00] you're having problems? or your email is having problems? [22:02] Email [22:02] I can't access anything where I have to sign in [22:02] Apart from googlemail for some reason [22:02] So I'm attempting to set up Thunderbird to download my mail [22:03] And that doesn't want to work either [22:03] www.math.ualberta.ca/~bvowk/files/exmars_streams.exe [22:03] give that a go [22:04] Thanks bvowk :-) [22:04] Sorted [22:08] woot. [22:09] Okay before I start using it a couple of quick questions ;-) [22:09] Am I assuming right here: [22:09] sts #65 outputs "A" [22:09] sts 65 outputs whatever is 65 locations away [22:10] in theory yes.. [22:10] sts #65, }0 outputs "A" then will output "B" if it is executed again [22:10] but you tell me if thats the case, I ran a few simple tests, and it looks about right. [22:13] Join: John__ joined #corewars [22:14] Since I'm having connection problems bvowk, I'm going to go offline and play with the new opcodes for a couple of hours :-) [22:14] MSG: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [22:15] Nick Change: John__ changed nick to John [22:16] Stupid computers! [22:16] Thanks for making the modifications [22:16] I'll let you know how I get on :-) [22:16] * John waves [22:16] MSG: Client Quit [22:16] k [23:21] good night! [23:21] MSG: