[11:49] heh, Soylent Green torrent found [12:25] hi * [12:27] anyone here, who knows about how to build a mars asm? [13:28] not me [13:28] *g* i think i will post a collection of my questions to rgc [13:59] Join: fiveop joined #corewars [14:41] Join: Nenad joined #corewars [15:01] hi N, bye N, gotta go [15:01] hi [15:08] MSG: [15:29] MSG: Quit: Lost terminal [17:55] Join: fiveop joined #corewars [17:57] MSG: Client Quit [18:00] Join: fiveop joined #corewars [18:18] Join: |andrex| joined #corewars [18:18] <|andrex|> Hi :-) [18:18] <|andrex|> Oh, I wondered who |andrex| was, it's me! [18:18] Nick Change: |andrex| changed nick to John [18:24] hiya [18:31] Hi Mizcu [18:35] Join: Core_old joined #corewars [18:37] Hi Core_old [18:38] hey [18:48] * John waves [18:48] MSG: Quit: mov.i #1,1 [19:15] Join: Core_old_ joined #corewars [19:18] MSG: Ping timeout: 255 seconds [20:58] Join: robi joined #corewars [21:00] MSG: Client Quit [21:00] Join: robi joined #corewars [21:02] hi there [21:04] MSG: Client Quit [22:12] Join: gareththe joined #corewars [22:13] Part: gareththe left #corewars [22:19] MSG: Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com [22:20] Join: gareththe joined #corewars [22:20] anyone here? [22:22] :( [22:56] Join: Fluffy joined #corewars [22:57] :) [22:57] Anybody alife? [22:57] gareththe: Still there? Got any problems? [22:57] hello [22:57] :) [22:58] everyone has problems :D [22:58] and with cw? [22:58] just that I'm a newbie :/ [22:58] I hope that you have lots of fun then [22:59] I guess that you've send that warrior to nano [22:59] right? [22:59] yeah :D [22:59] I didn't really even test that [22:59] I just sorta spammed it on in there [22:59] just curious how it would do [22:59] As long as you don't send one warrior per second [22:59] that should be ok [22:59] no [23:00] that is the first nano warrior as its name says [23:00] Nano might be a little bit tough for a start [23:00] def [23:00] :D [23:00] I was looking at it [23:00] and [23:00] there is almost nothing in it between all 50 warriors lol [23:00] pretty tight [23:00] Yes, a lot of nano-warriors are highly optimized [23:01] and you've also been on 94b [23:01] :) [23:01] Yes [23:01] But I have only made it to 16% wins on nop [23:01] (koth) [23:02] yes, that's to be expected [23:02] its tough because I can do ok on the beginner hill now and can't get anywhere on any of the others [23:02] '94nop has a lot of history and therefore a lot of good warriors [23:02] Yes [23:02] well, I might help then :) [23:02] I didn't expect to get on it [23:03] I just wanted to see how I was doing [23:03] My first warrior onto koth got 2% [23:03] next one got 5% [23:03] what's your current favourit strategy? [23:03] *e [23:03] I have been playing around with vampires but I gather that they're dead [23:03] no, they aren't, but it seems to be pretty hard to write good ones [23:04] hi gareth, hi fluffy [23:04] hi [23:04] you have beat my warriors on sal *g* [23:04] sry :D [23:04] ares_: Which hill? [23:04] beginner [23:05] beginners... 0.3 - ~20 pts [23:05] better [23:05] :-) [23:05] ares_: That's the point of cw! Always write a better warrior :) [23:05] but neverland still rules the hill [23:05] (... and annoy Mizcu ;-) [23:05] ares_: Do you know Neverland 2? [23:06] no, and i am a bit afraid *g* [23:06] no, if you understand N 1, you'll understand N2 [23:07] understand? [23:07] how it works [23:07] how do I find out [23:07] gareththe: Do you know Koenigstuhl? [23:07] I have heard it in passing... [23:07] http://www.ociw.edu/~birk/COREWAR/koenigstuhl.html is some kind of warrior-archive [23:08] wicked tnx, I'll take a looksie [23:08] brb [23:08] .. and on the its '94no hill there are (among other warriors) N1 and N2 [23:08] http://www.ociw.edu/~birk/COREWAR/94/hill_rec.html [23:08] http://www.ociw.edu/~birk/COREWAR/94/HILL/neverland2.red [23:08] http://www.ociw.edu/~birk/COREWAR/94/HILL/neverland.red [23:08] ah nice [23:09] as I said I am a newbie :D [23:09] Usually you'll see the code of a warrior only after it has been pushed off the hill [23:09] that is what I thought [23:09] but it is only the beginner hill eh [23:09] so while it is on the hill you can only guess how it works (and what strategy it uses) [23:10] John has send it to '94b as a "gift" for newbies [23:10] N1/2 are pretty old [23:10] i c [23:11] you can also send probes to a hill to test a warrior in order to get to know which strategy it uses [23:11] but to do that you need some experience [23:11] i.e. you have to know how to read the scores [23:11] i c [23:11] how long will you be here this evening? 'cause i am skyping right now... i'd like to ask something later [23:11] interesting [23:12] hmm .. about an hour [23:12] k... thx [23:12] and then I have to sleep a little bit [23:12] i just got uü... [23:12] up [23:12] hehe ... it is past midnight here :) [23:12] 23:13 here [23:13] 0:13 [23:13] fluffy is in europe then :D [23:13] you're from the UK then? [23:13] :D [23:13] as in yes [23:14] in any case you can just leave your questions there and read the answer in the logs later [23:14] http://www.koth.org/irc-logs/ has all the logs [23:14] there = here [23:14] cool [23:15] I am gaining new bookmarks at an alarming rate lol [23:15] :) [23:15] Do u use windows? [23:15] then you have to add http://corewar.info ! [23:15] nope [23:15] but I might be able to help tough [23:15] I am using linux [23:15] so am I [23:15] and I don't like the Gtk program that came with it [23:16] any problems with pmars? [23:16] I haven't been using pmars.... [23:16] that's the prob :D [23:16] re [23:16] gareththe: you should use pmars [23:16] I only found a server version? [23:16] http://sourceforge.net/projects/corewar has the source code [23:16] I wanted to watch what was happening.... [23:16] the point is, that i just started to write the mars asm fo ares anew [23:16] ok tnx [23:17] I am crap at using google :'( [23:17] version 0.9.2 should compile with Xwindows without problems on any distro [23:17] and some things are not quite clear to me... i read some text about... i tried (!) to read the pmars source, but thats not helping much [23:17] Don't do that! [23:17] someone told me to read exhausts' code [23:17] I might :D [23:17] hehe [23:18] but that thing can only read loadfile format or so [23:18] okay, here the questions: [23:18] 1) can i think of for as some sort of equ? [23:18] yes [23:18] ;-) [23:18] 2) what habbens with label names that appearin other labels? [23:18] huh? [23:19] i read http://www.koth.org/info/pmars-redcode-94.txt [23:19] k [23:19] as far as i understand the grammar, sth like imp .... imp2 ..... imp21.... should NOT work [23:20] forget the grammar [23:20] NOOOO! [23:20] *heul* [23:20] you should write your own [23:20] and check that it matches the behaviour of pmars [23:20] i dont want to do extended test series on pmars... so much work.... [23:21] gareththe: About pmars' code. It is a little bit convoluted because of the support for DOS and the "GUI". If you want to read clean code then take exhaust [23:21] and if i relly start reading the source of pmars, you will get a newly written code, with readyble var names and comments !! [23:21] * Fluffy shrugs [23:21] exhaust does not support for and multiline equ... at least the 2 versions i downloaded till now [23:21] it tells sth about using pmars as a prepocessor [23:22] and what's the problem with multiline equ's? [23:22] i am not quite sure how to do it... the aim is to be 100% compatible [23:22] question 3) [23:22] EQU are implemented as string replacements [23:22] *EQUs [23:23] you can write N FOR 5 imp&N mov imp&N, imp&N + 1 ROF [23:23] yes [23:23] should I just leave all the makefile options alone? [23:23] CFLAGS = -O -DEXT94 -DXWINGRAPHX -DPERMUTATE [23:23] is &N allways 2-digits? (leading zero) [23:23] gareththe: yes [23:23] tnx [23:23] gareththe: then you'll get the GUI-version [23:24] ares_: test it with pmars [23:24] okay... last 4) [23:25] what is the word "stingized" meaning.... "If labels, that are not stringized are declared inside FOR/ROF statements, the result is duplicationg declaration"... ehmm... maybe you can translate? [23:25] ares_: stringization are sth. like imp&N [23:25] i tried to guess the meaning, but was not lucky [23:25] ares_: i.e. the &N is replaced by the current value of N (2 digits) [23:26] i.e.: N= 2 --> imp02 [23:26] stringized = "zu einem string gemacht" ? [23:26] yes, more or less [23:26] okay... [23:26] Do even try to translate it, simple use the English word :) [23:27] gareththe: Does it compile fine? [23:27] make: *** No rule to make target `install'. Stop. [23:27] wah wah [23:27] really? [23:27] gareththe: one moment .. I'll check :) [23:27] there was no configure? [23:27] is that correct [23:27] pmars 0.9.2 is from 2001 [23:27] yes, no configure [23:27] so I just did make [23:27] you have to edit the Makefile [23:28] in what way [23:28] ok, you're right. there is no target install [23:29] I don't understand [23:29] all you have to do is to copy "pmars" to sth. like "/usr/bin" [23:29] (after make) [23:29] Join: Neogryzor joined #corewars [23:29] let me check :D [23:29] Hi Neo :) [23:29] oh yeah sry [23:29] Hi Fluff :P. How are things these days? [23:29] gareththe: no problem [23:29] it is already built (duh) [23:30] gareththe: In order to use GUI properly you also need the file pmars.mac in the working directory [23:30] gareththe: "pmars -e warrior.red" starts the GUI-debug mode [23:30] Neogryzor: I hate christmas, but apart from that I'm fine [23:31] Neogryzor: what about the tournament? Got you warrior ready? [23:31] Tournament? Redcoders Frenzy? [23:31] Neogryzor: No, Nenad's tournament [23:31] Neogryzor: it is all in rgc [23:32] I had no idea. I have been out of corewar lately... [23:32] Neogryzor: You can still enter. First round is already over. Next one is due tomorrow 23:00 CET [23:33] Neogryzor: But you don't have to participate in every round. You get points in very round [23:33] Neogryzor: By the way: READ THE TOPIC ;-) [23:34] gareththe: Does it work? I know that pmars' debugger is kind of difficult to use at first [23:34] I'm checking rgc right now [23:34] Thanks mate! [23:35] working well [23:35] I have used pmars in windows at work (when the boss ain't looking) [23:35] but not in linux so far [23:35] I was getting fed up of the gtk one that comes with ubuntu [23:36] :) [23:38] ares_: If you still got problems with pmars' way to interpret the standard you send an email. While writing PyCorewar I've already tried to figure out how it "works" and might be able to save you some time [23:39] The gtk one doesn't give my warrior points for a kill when it makes its opponent kill itself lol [23:39] problem is, multiline equ and for is not part of the standard *G* [23:39] which is usually about half the time [23:39] gareththe: that gtk-version has been created to be used with a corewar-variant, so it doesn't necessarily behave exactly like the '94ext-standard says [23:40] variant? [23:41] yes, it has been written to be used with a slightly (some say easier) version of cw [23:41] but the author decided to kill the page/game [23:42] it used to be at corewars.sf.net [23:42] (which now points to the SAL-hill) [23:42] http://sourceforge.net/projects/corewars still has the files [23:42] (notice the additional 's' at the end :-) [23:44] i c [23:44] I noticed most of the warriors were in a different language [23:44] yup [23:44] reminded me of nasm [23:45] e.g. [eax] [23:45] but it is no longer used [23:45] ok tnx [23:46] well, thanks to that gtk program I found corewar anyway so can't knock it too much:-) [23:46] I had never heard of it at all until about a month ago [23:46] cw is quite old [23:47] the basis for the current corewar has been created in 1984 [23:49] Unfortunately there is no time to tune a decent warrior for that nice round. :( [23:49] Neogryzor: you can still try an imp and how that somone else submits a dat ;) [23:50] *how->hope [23:51] hehehe [23:51] gareththe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corewar might be interesting and gives a short overview [23:52] wow - only one month and most of you warriors beat mine *g* [23:52] I can optimize a LP-style paper for the small core, but for the other i would do a P^3, but that takes time. [23:52] yes I read that [23:53] I have probably spent too much time on corewar in the last month ;) [23:53] Neogryzor: There are other ways :-) [23:54] yeah, copy someone else's pieces of code and joint under a switcher :D [23:54] Neogryzor: no, I mean without a P-switcher [23:54] Neogryzor: There's a way with a simple jmz [23:54] I shouldn't have said that [23:55] you mean to check the size? I suppouse so [23:55] yes [23:57] something like: where equ (CORESIZE%10)+1 [23:57] start: jmp where [23:57] (if your first strat is 10 lines long) [23:58] why not "jmz.b code1, # CORESIZE - CORESIZE1" followed by code2 [23:58] ? [23:58] where code1 is for the first coresize [23:59] nice one [23:59] damn, I shouldn't have told you that then ;-)