[05:55] hrm. [08:37] Join: Nenad joined #corewars [08:52] heya nenad [08:52] you keep coming back like this and we'll have regulars again. [09:03] heh [09:03] well, that's a good thing, right [09:03] besides, I became a mass murderer this morning, so I cab hardly work normally... and many more kills to come [09:03] these damn ants [09:03] they're all over the place [09:04] and they had to choose my desk for their transport route [09:04] *cab=can [09:04] maybe it's 'cause I installed Ant recently to build some application? [09:04] * Nenad wonders [09:05] well, it was a bit discouraging to see empty logs [09:05] you're right about that - if someone opens the log archive and sees that there's some conversation going on, [09:05] it might help a bit [09:06] but more that just a little improvement is needed if this game is to spur to life again [09:07] I see from the logs that Roy and JM still visit [09:07] which is nice [09:08] but I still think we need some "live" popularization (1) [09:08] and also to find some field of application (2) [09:09] and a bit more variety than simply changing core parameters [09:09] yes, it affects the strategies a lot, but in the end... [09:10] maybe a bit more flexible game setting? [09:10] btw, how is quantum coreworld doing, has anything been done there in the meantime? [09:10] a few more webpages (that are updated) [09:10] a couple of active tourneys / challenges [09:11] activity here [09:11] + spam a few google groups about corewar, it's glorious history lol :P, the fact that it's quite challenging, etc [09:12] and when enough people enters, perhaps finding some company to sponsor a championship (some small amount of money involved) [09:12] etc etc [09:13] if I ever find the time, I might easily ogranize a corewar challenge at my university, a few introductory lessons, and then let the students compete [09:13] but it's not that easy these days, 'cause people aren't geeky enough lol [09:13] most of them think only about money [09:13] and technologies they're gonna use once they find a job [09:13] and corewar simply isn't one of them [09:14] so the fact that they are bound to improve some of their skills that way, even though it isn's scalable to, say, OO paradigm and such [09:14] it is still a good thing to experience [09:15] at least that's how it appears to be from my perspective [09:16] but I also failed to find much activity in ANN or DM groups online, and those are still pretty important and useful areas of cs [09:16] which means that popularity was never really that informative about the potential of some programming areas [09:16] hmm... [09:22] * Nenad stretches [09:22] hrm [09:22] I like money. [09:23] You should do a challenge nenad. [09:28] I really think that people should have to write asm code [09:28] :P [09:28] no programming classes until they can grok the machine. [09:28] many would disagree [09:29] we do have an asm course, but it's... well... crappy [09:29] I know, but statistics tell us that many people are capable of little more than drooling on their shoes. [09:29] and the moral behind it is: no one writes in asm any more [09:29] or at least that's what they tell us [09:29] yes, but they do.. it's just they have a program in between [09:29] hehe [09:29] the machine still has to spew [09:30] the same instructions to get things done.. [09:30] unless you know the machine and the way it functions.. you'll never be much more than a passable programmer. [09:31] many *new* method annoy me in a way... our teachers say something like: people make a lot of mistakes when they code, so they shouldn't be given the freedom to make them [09:31] that's why they like java that much [09:31] yes, but you don't learn from not making mistakes. [09:31] ok, I like the syntax of the language and it *is* comfortable to work with [09:31] exactly [09:31] you learn how pointers work through painful hours of debugging *WTF* you did wrong [09:31] yes [09:32] and then you understand what happens in the compiler/interpreter under the good. [09:32] er.. s/good/hood [09:32] and we actually did do all the work with pointers in modula-2. but, of course, no one uses it [09:32] I don't know how many people heard about it to begin with [09:33] but that's irrelevant [09:34] well, besides the challenges and things like that... I really think that we need something *new* in corewar [09:34] to draw attention [09:36] but the warriors are still getting better [09:36] we're not just spinning around and around. [09:36] which is interesting isn't it? [09:38] well... [09:38] yes [09:39] but it is hard to judge anything right now [09:39] since there are almost no serious challenges to the hill [09:39] and most warriors are just improving existing concepts [09:40] yes, but the fact they can still be improved is insteresting [09:40] so, there is "little exploration" and "much exploitation" in corewar today, to use the GA phrases [09:40] interesting to us [09:40] and that's the crucial point [09:41] but interesting to a random generic programmes who just stumbled upon the game? [09:41] no. [09:41] :) [09:41] *programmer [09:41] lol [09:43] how can you explain to someone that he has to invest hours and days and possibly weeks to get the feel for the game only to be able to design average (not 94nop material) warriors [09:43] ok, so chess is a bit like that [09:43] and pretty rewarding once you make some progress [09:43] but [09:43] many people play chess [09:43] you've got chess clubs in every city [09:43] and much more competition going on [09:43] also prizes [09:43] tons of books [09:43] etc [09:45] so we must work with what we have and adjust it. once enough people were to enter the community, all the problems would most likely go away [09:45] but... well, it's hard to imagine that taking place. at least from this milestone [12:24] Join: fiveop joined #corewars [12:29] hey fiver [12:30] hi [12:30] work on saturdays? [12:30] no.. I've got intarwebs at home [12:33] humhum [12:33] whats up today? [12:34] making clean copies of today's lectures and prepare an exercise for monday ;) [12:34] saturday classes? [12:36] yes [12:37] they don't do that back home [12:39] neither in germany [12:40] we only have tests on saturdays, also no lectures [12:41] Join: trifler joined #corewars [12:42] Hello In Mov 0, 1 - the 0 is the A-field and the 1 is the B-field? [12:42] yes [12:42] Good then I understand a little :) [12:43] hello trifler [12:43] Nenad: Hello [12:43] new here? [12:43] Yes I am [12:43] http://rando.bsnet.se/~trifler/data/redcode.txt [12:44] Can I ask a few questions about that peticular code? [12:45] oh [12:45] go ahead [12:45] you create a few copies of those tiny core-clearing things [12:45] as far as I can see [12:45] what did you want to ask? [12:46] i can find that dst is a "mode" like jmp, mov, spl and so on. Is dst, d1 and d2 "functions" that holds the info inside them? [12:46] no [12:46] I'm not sure exactly what you had in mind [12:46] they are just labels for there lines [12:46] yes [12:47] if they are references somewhere else in the code, they get replaced by the relative adresse of the line they name, to the line they are referenced in [12:47] -s+d [12:47] }d [12:47] +d [12:47] did you test your code? [12:48] It's not my code i stole it. Just trying to understand what it does. Im on the imp level you see :) [12:48] ok :) [12:49] http://vyznev.net/corewar/guide.html im reading this. [12:49] And couldent understand what dst, d1 and d2 where about. [12:49] Im not really sure still about the label things. I blame my poor english though. [12:50] it is a good guide [12:50] (the one that you've been reading) [12:50] But there is a section about labels i see now. [12:50] I'll look there :) [12:50] have you done assembly coding before? [12:50] None [12:51] oh. I see :) well, read on - things should become clearer pretty soon [12:59] do we have another skandinavian playing? [13:14] MSG: [13:17] MSG: Quit: humhum [13:29] Join: Nenad joined #corewars [14:10] MSG: [14:52] Join: Metcalf joined #corewars [14:52] HI :-) [14:53] hi [14:57] MSG: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [14:57] Join: OoS joined #corewars [14:58] Hi Mizcu [15:04] MSG: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [18:34] hrm [19:40] Join: fiveop joined #corewars [21:46] Join: Metcalf joined #corewars [21:46] Hi :-) [21:48] hi [21:51] Metcalf: . [21:53] MSG: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [21:53] Join: Metcalf joined #corewars [21:55] Hi Fiveop [21:56] wb [21:56] let's see for how long [21:56] :-) [22:03] MSG: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [22:05] Join: Metcalf joined #corewars [22:10] Join: OoS joined #corewars [22:11] MSG: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [22:12] it's difficult to have a conversation with you john [22:12] I hope you can read this [22:16] MSG: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [22:19] Join: OoS joined #corewars [22:19] Sorry fiveop :-( [22:19] wb [22:20] Thanks [22:37] MSG: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [22:37] Join: OoS joined #corewars [22:57] MSG: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [22:58] Join: OoS joined #corewars [23:00] MSG: Quit: humhum [23:11] MSG: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [23:11] Join: OoS joined #corewars [23:20] MSG: Ping timeout: 245 seconds