#COREWARS 20 OCT 2002 FIZMO: Fizmo a.k.a. ? FORDBC: Ben Ford LGRABUN: Lukasz Grabun METCALF: John Metcalf PHILB: Phil Thorne SMP10K: Ken Espiritu STEVEG: Steve Gunnell *** Now talking in #corewars hi Ben hello I'm trying to figure out what round 2, entry 2 was :) Erm, Lockdown? It was just a handy email in my inbox... *** Join: smp10k (fdfa@pool-207-68-49-48.norf.east.verizon.net) I don't save addresses, too lazy Hi Ken hey john.. oh :) new 94 hill? Not long had an IRC program, I thought it was about time! Yes. Steve Gunnell is king at the moment. looks like a hill from the mid 90's :) It is. It has been sat around in suspended animation (you could view it but not submit) JKW has killed off all the warriors which were on it and reactivated it. ah.. ok.. Looks like you may be king of '94 in a few minutes Ben :-) hopefully :) the top koenigstuhl warrior should be able to make it on I thought for round 4 there could be a non-compulsory naming theme... E.g. everyone names their warriors with names of extinct creatures, or Children's TV characters or something. Do you think this is a bad idea, I'm having doubts? 38 point lead on '94 :-) woohoo! most the warriors i submit are named by the computer these days... unless its a test :) Named by computer? I noticed you had moved away from your old one word names to two worders :-) yeah.. the optimization program just randomly generates names.. i.e. adjective and a noun Nice idea. I must admit I flip through the dictionary and choose something when I'm stuck. I always think of something a bunch of mine a names of the Netrunner CCG cards I noticed! Banpei, etc. Pattel's Virus Don't know that one. I don't really play it, I just got some out of curiousity. I named quite a few after charcters from childrens books... the only reason i started using computer generated name was it was hard to find the code window for each warrior since there are like 20 code windows... I only optimize by hand so its not a problem for me... You should try some kind of computer optimization. probably, but then I would have to write real code :) Even a small program in QBASIC which writes copies of your program to disk with random constants, then benchmark them all! yeah.. the only things that i optimize by hand are scanners and one shots sometimes.. everything else is too complex to be done by hand I'm not having much luck with scanners. Willow is a HSA type warrior with decoy (nothing original). Twinshot is a bit better. Two oneshots, as soon as one detects something, it kills the other oneshot. Helps against DAT bombers. its a wonder any of my papers last any length of time on the hills My papers don't do too well either :-( Though I'm quite pleased with my tiny hill papers. i think there are only a few type of scanner types that are effective at stopping 94 papers.. variable length spl carpets blur, fixed length spl carpets agony, hsa style carpets and linear carpets spl clears everything else is mostly ineffective... Yes. Mirage .33c scan / .33c clear doesn't seen so effective now though :-( anyone experiment with the imp-launcher I used in Olivia? yeah i've noticed that too.. no, i haven't looked at that warrior yet.. mirage/blur style has been optimized against lots I posted it a while ago I'm gonna be dominating the 94 hill! :) hehe.. you're the only one playing :) Olivia launches a colored imp-trail so a short-distance cmp-scanner will pick up the useless part of the trail more easily is there any way to get rid of pizza? it really isn't helping the community with it being broken.. People could stop linking to it, or link to it describing it as a site of historical interest only. I'm up to a 40 point lead! yeah.. that's what i was thinking... i wonder how many potential players we have lost because of it.. ah.. might be good for like a 7 point imp since there is less chance of it getting stunned.. I've just had a look at Olivia's launch. I wrote something like that about two weeks ago (my objective was to make the SPL invisible to .f scanners. I didn't think of the handy side effect. yeah, it was a side effect of making the spl invisible It makes Uninvited score better against my benchmark anyway. The SPL in Jedimp can be made invisible to .f scanners too. I've already submitted my jedimp that does that to the 94 hill Can't I come up with anything original ;-) Well apart from scanners that is! me neither *** Join: LGrabun (grabek@acn.pl) hey i come up with alot of original stuff.. it just doesn't make the grade :) Hi? most of my warriors are bits and pieces pulled from all over the place Hi. Oh Hi, John Hi all Just been talking about imp launchers. hi lukasz phew imp launchers... Hm * LGrabun don't know anything about imp launchers :) Have you tried out the ;redcode-94 hill yet at koth? nope not yet I've been working on my master thesis for the whole day We're just playing on there now. Ben is Koth. Will you send Reepicheep just to see how it handles p-spacers? What about? I could not find it on Christoph's page Okay, will send it now. The queue is about 5 long though Yes, I've noticed that Hm reepicheep is #1 nop in koen Do you know the irc command to get the list of all people that are on the channel who I just can't figure out who damn ' /who #corewars OIC yap got it thanks I am using this text version of xchat (I don't have gnome libraries installed) It is sent :-) I need to submit a warrior to the nop hills doh! wingshot cut into my lead on the 94 hill! Thanks John Yes. Have a go. How about having a go at a bomber / imp How about having a go at a bom? probably a reason those never show up This is all I see Rather than stone / imp I mean... Son of Vain would be hard to improve on incendiary bomber/imp? SoV is an ultimate warrior methinks Yes, incendiary/imp! incendiarys aren't very effective against papers.. I could give SoV my imp launcher and rename it! :) Hm guys will you be here later? I'll be back later. I gtg now Cheers. Got some work to, blast it to do, I mean ok.. see ya later.. see you *** Quit: LGrabun (Client Exiting) actually.. incendiary/imp might work if you can use a ssd type clear with it.. incendiary for the initial stun.. that would be too big I think Torch is the best scoring incendiary I could find (after removing all the decoys, qscans etc) I have a torch with better constants yeah.. and there's the problem of stunning the imp.. dragon fire or some such Torch uses a ssd clear. Draken Fire actually I used a d-clear after tho Shouldn't be stunned if you uses a d-clear and space things carefully hmm.. maybe the sd-clear may work.. gotta go and get some lunch.. i'll see you guys later.. I got hit by geometric spam from the self-battle results from everythin I submitted cheers. its a pain that especially with hotmail where your inbox is only 2meg Twinshot takes 2nd place! yeah, its not too bad tho, they are just text files dang, a point better than wingshot! wingshot++ just switched around the djn in the scan loop instead of lowering a counter, it hit one of the two scanned locations O well, completely different warriors. Twinshot will be on Koenigstuhl soon (you can find it in the INPUT folder for the 94nop Koenigstuhl) so a bit dirty for other scanners to hit and I pick it up myself when about to hit the second pass It is a pity the DJN.A in the clear can't be made into a DJN.F somehow wonder if g3-b will be published soon, must of been doing something different Have you read the code for G2? yeah firestorm knocks twinshot to 3rd ;) I have seen a oneshot with a self splitting scan loop :-) Works great, but for some reason the score isn't that good. goonie kinda does Self-splitting like a stone, with a leading spl # oh, that would be weird :) I'll have to ask if I can send you a copy. Reepicheep only 5th, for the moment scores badly against leaflet, timescape etc (as expected) hmm... have to dig up 8 more warriors to purge the hill I think leaflet was one of the tourney entries Not that I recall. oh I'm not sure what it is then, don't even know if it has had any optimization... do you remember it ever being submitted to the nop hill? Optimized to give more points to wingshot than twinshot perhaps I'll look now! You only submitted Aquafina and Wingshot++ in the last two years! lol was olivia really that long ago Sorry missed that one, 23 months ago just before I started logging properly. wow Reepicheep gives Pattel's virus a good kicking ;-) no surprising there was a glut of stone/papers when it got knocked off the pizza hill none of the components deal with a stone/paper Time to write a new warrior? Can you get a oneshot in there as well? self-modifying code is newer actually I suppose I should submit smc oh, leaflet made 10th on the no hill You killed Vanquisher. I didn't mean to And you hit Son of Vain worse than anyone else. wow I need a paper optimizing program! Bombers aren't doing very well at the moment anyway. It was the only one on the hill. imagine how good it could do if I actually gave it good constants *** Join: LGrabun (grabek@acn.pl) Hi again hi Ben Ford I killed Vanquisher Show your face here *slap slap* I just use short gwbasic program. Open a file, print a copy of the paper to it with random constants, then run a benchmark (using a couple of batch file and MTS) on them :))) He didn't mean to. Oh yes he meant to :) Leave Uninvited alone though! :-) My oldest warrior ::sniff:: Otherwise Son of Vain becomes the oldest warrior and that looks like it will be about forever I don't even know how I came up with Leaflet, it was just kinda sitting there Oh don't you say a word Murderer :))) Well guys what are your ideas for the next one next what? warrior, of course Vanquisher 14th in the HoF Well, that does not sound so bad, don't you think a incendinary/imp? :) * LGrabun thinks of anti-A&B-driven-imps-paper Neither this sound so bad A quick stone (0.6 for example, Tornado like), with leading spl, and 7-pt imps woo, SMC into 2nd on the 94 hill Since 94 hill is around still need 7 more submissions to the 94 hill Maybe it's time for deadly p-switcher just submit anything you have there I *think* I have some components Reepicheep gives SMC a good kicking too help clear out the killed warriors so its normal yeah yeah, my p-spacers don't deal with stone/papers! :P :-) They deal with older stone/paper okay. probably depends on the paper used pattels is weak against some papers *** Join: Philb (chatzilla@user-11218vp.dsl.mindspring.com) Hi phil Hello all Hi Phil John Going to have a go on the ;redcode-94 hill? submit to the 94 hill on koth, its needs real warriors Why does Reepicheep handles paper-like warriors not-so-good? Just woken up - it's moving again? Oh yes it *is* Paper ties paper, paper beats stone. We lose a little but don't win. Won't hurt us though! I think Reepicheep is a second ultimate warrior IMNSHO Just like SoV It's been published but it does not leave the top five stone/papers have strong weaknesses But what ultimate warrior will be next? paper/clear? heh SoV is a stone/clear/imp so we can't have an ultimate clear/imp :-( Ben: do you mean o/s? yeah I tried paper clear before. me too I just submitted an untoned one to the 94 hill! I think we tried it around the same time back on Pizza. I found I was better of with paper/stone. I didn't optimize it too well though. Steve made some clear/papers time ago with no succes as I recall Vanquisher is 7th Well it was not created to beat p-spacers a 94-nop warrior needs more versatility (just like SoV, though it's no p-spacer it works differently against different opponents) Vampiric paper - did that ever wrk? [I think Ben you had some?] not really but I don't tune papers very well There hasn't been an intelligent '94 warrior like Leapfrog yet has there? Argh... don't think so Irish folks decided to ratify Maastrich bill (whatever you call it) thats a possibility Phew Sorry for the OT what does that do? Leapfrog? the Maastrich bill :) Oh LOL Poland may now access the EU, I suppose It runs a stone, which at the same time detects if it has hit something. If it hit something but didn't kill it, then it runs a paper (must be fighting paper of a multi-process warrior it assumes) oh Does Poland want to enter the EU? John, please Your paper/clear seems to do well against the scanners. OK, here's my idea for next warrior Have dual-boot paper, one copy with against A-driven imps the other one with dat >2667, >5334 bomb (kill B-driven imps) PVK mentioned it three/four days ago on r.g.c Does PVK ever submit anymore? John - you have all the stats, right? I must have missed that post. Can't you get both bombs in one paper? or maybe dual-papers, each tweaked to be anti- different scanner types Paul doesn't write much these days. He was one of the very first on the '94nop hill :-) And the other PK? I think there are only 10 people or so who submit [bvowk has gone] anti-A imp bomb is something like mov.i #1, {1 or similar, can't remember that yeah One can also make two copies of paper in warrior's body something like anti-B-paper spl 1, spl 1, spl 1, ... blah blah anti-A-papr spl 1 spl 1 spl1 , mov #1 , {1 blah and in the begining make spl anti-A and jmp anti-B Ben, what were the strong weaknesses of paper/stone you mentioned? Just 8 people made it onto the '94nop since last Core Warrior. oneshot type stuff Philb Why do you want to know this? :) I think paper == huge target. Would _think_ it easy to disrupt Reep* so it papered it's own stone. John you know that Fizmo -= Schmidt? Sorry, forgot Leaflet, makes that 9 Leave Reepicheep alone! :) Ok, Purifier [but that's under control] :-) just 3 more to go on the 94 hill Lukasz significance of "-=" == or != ? No, no -= is = My irc client does not work so well Or maybe I can't use it in the proper way Anyway looking at the 94nop think of DM's hill wipe? damn Hmmm... I did suspect. Schmidt disappeared for a long time, during which Fizmo was on the hill. Fizmo's Argon in on Koenigstuhl, I haven't read through the source yet, but I think it is quite unusual... Oneshot with a paper or something :) Phil that was stupid IMO Fizmo really had me motivated - he came out of nowhere. Each day I'd wake up and "Fizmo!" JKW should disable PIN numbers I wasn't judging it just thinking Ben's almost got it made :-) I think Phooey (in the hall of fame) was Ian Oversby... Any one else use pseudonyms? I never have other than for dat 0,0 warriors :) Oh, was he? Sometimes I submit as metcalf - always try to use a new email address for him, hehe That's funny. Metcalf, Metcalf? Can't recall Argon is also #1 on the yellow begineers hill. Too strong. :) Hm is it me or Christoph just did not submit Reepicheep to open hill? I do check all those email addresses you know. One of them sends text alerts to my mobile (so I know what is going on on the hill), one is convenient for attachments and the other, I don't know. he submits to everything its valid for I think There is a holding pen of 8 for the Open hill... Reepicheep is in there, as are a few warriors I wrote which Janeczek won for round 4 and decided to publish. Well, it does not show on the hill though But I'm very interested in the results Just below the list of new warriors on the Koenigstuhl hill it mentions the holding pen. OIC have not noticed that woo, Playing with Fire back to the top of the multi hill :) www.ociw.edu/~birk/COREWAR/OPEN/INPUT lets you see the list (and source) I sent a dat 0 to the multi hill yest as it's so volatile - never knew which was best. Result = Redemption / Clock / Her Maj Multi hill? Oh the extended multi hill should either be eliminated or get a new scoring algorithm My multi warriors don't do so well these days I never bothered Don't you think it possible to break it? John you mentioned PIN - do you mean NOP supports PIN? The new ;redcode-94 hill probably supports PINs Don't like it, definitely don't like it Just Agony II to be removed now haha, Agony is beating 2 of my junk warriors :) What's so specail about TrItEFighter that it makes the holding pen? [Had the least ties BTW!] I still have 2 more in the queue Anyone interested in trying to break into the -mx hill? There are at least 4 sptst warriors there so finding a weakness against them may be enough to scrape in after which it should get easier You'll definitely be the KotH. With so many warriors... :) the -mx hill can't be broken I agree too many papers in too much code in a scoring system that promotes ties too much Pls don't say that - I only have so much time to battle the impossible.... :-) haha, my paper/clear died before Agony :) wow, Agony scores really well against twinshot Hey, Agony's moving up not down looks like I'm going to ned help removing Agony II LOL submit some anti-scanner warriors :) Are you suggesting I kill Twinshot to manipulate the hill Candy! no just some more stone/imps or p-spacers I think I have 1 or 2 more bad stone/imps if neccessary Candy is coming! Oh I *love* this s/i then after Agony is gone, you just have to wipe out all the bad warriors I submitted :) need to get Moore to submit Combatra and such stuff Uninvited is up now, giving Agony a hard time. Did we discover who prompted JKW to raise the hill? [My guess is SG] we should get the lp and tiny hills up as well I only skim the political r.g.cw posts but I believe I saw something. they are both fun I think tiny is great. I nearly posted an April 1st showing my warrior winning the 1st round of the tournament, but decided it may not be such a good idea. John maybe this should be a round for your [extended] tourney - 8 hrs to fill a new hill. Easter Egg, it even labels apri1 and foo1 in the code. Someone write some tiny warriors Or similar - anyway means that the round is over with quickly - people don't / can't spend too much time I thought about a rolling tournament. A different volunteer runs each round. It goes on forever. You score is the sum of you best 6 scores from the last 10 rounds (or something) Standings of players go in Corewarrior and on a web-page. That way you get to play too. That would shift emphasis from warriors to players. You would only have to compete in half the rounds to get a decent score. Ah deja-vu 94 hill thinks as little of knp as does 94nop heh Agony down to #20 Good. And Reep is moving on up and Candy in at #3 Great. this is kinda like when we fixed the 94 hill after the great wipe Stunning papers - is it nec. to cover the whole core? e.g. what if heavily / repeatedly stun section of core Pattel only has a 6 point lead now :-) BTW who quit after the wipe - I see references that some did but not who. pattel is really good against a lot of old-school warriors :) If you stun the paper well enough, you don't need to hit all of the papers. You'll need to clear them up with the dat wipe though. Darn. Perhaps Agony deserves to live? Erm... I think no-one actually did quit in the end. Moore retired (he's back again sometimes) nah, Agony is handicapped it has an unfair self-score Re stunning - that's what I mean - rather than having some complex circular spl carpet just work on a section of core repeatedly while slowly dating the rest. And some people didn't see the point in submitted while the hill was in the state it was. Not sure if anyone actually disappeared. Hmmm... not sure.